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To this ending the triple lock and winter fuel payment to wealthy pensioners was a good idea

24 replies

jdoe8 · 26/06/2017 14:07

Most economists think that the triple lock is a bad idea and that it should just be pegged to inflation.

Also just making the WFA for poor pensioners on pension credits was a good idea, my parents and most of their friends agree on this.

We are borrowing more and more money that future generations will need to pay for imo.

OP posts:
MrsPorth · 26/06/2017 14:14

YANBU. The WFA for anyone not on pension credit is a terrible waste of money. And pensioners get large % pay rises compared to public sector workers which doesn't seem fair.

DancingLedge · 26/06/2017 14:18

YANBU. There's a lot of pensioners with police/public sector/any successful job, who have pensions of £50,000 +. Good luck to them. But give them benefits as well- that's barmy.

olliegarchy99 · 26/06/2017 14:24

The simple solution would be to increase pension credit by the £200 a year WFA (circa £4 per week per household) and so avoid any need to means test.
That said - it is a bit unfair to pensioners who have very small annuities from personal pensions they have paid into and fall just outside the pension credit eligibility criteria -such as myself but we must all tighten our belt and if it means rich pensioners annd those on final salary pension don't get to spend it on a case of wine - I am all for it.
Re the triple lock it is meaningless if you take the time to check out the basic state pension amount which is the only thing the lock is applied to. And 2% of not very much is - not very much and the state pension is one of the few taxable benefits so is clawed back from richer pensioners.
If it stops people carping on about how feather-bedded the pensioners are - do scrap both of them (and the bus pass while you are at it.Angry

MayhemAndRudderless · 26/06/2017 14:28

Not all 10 million pensioners who were set to lose WFP are wealthy.


olliegarchy99 · 26/06/2017 14:30

mayhem - I did cover that as I am one of those who scrape about £12k per year and the WFP does help but we must all be prepared to take the tough decisions - something younger people need to realise.

alpacasandwich · 26/06/2017 14:35


It seems we've become a culture where a young family in poverty are categorised as "benefits scroungers" but wealthy elderly people getting handouts from the state are poor little old ladies.

BurntBum · 26/06/2017 14:38

YANBU. Winter fuel allowance should be means tested. The so called "dementia tax" was also a good idea and much better than the current arrangement.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 26/06/2017 14:43

I suppose it depends on how low the threshold for pension credits is. I do think the state pension needs looking at. There are people (like me) who are likely to retire with good personal pensions who really don't need the WFA or triple lock. (I am currently in my 40's so who knows what the system will actually be like when I retire). However, you have to strike a balance between not giving to those who really don't need it but on the other hand not disincentivising people from making personal provision due to a consequent loss of state support.

PassiveAgressiveQueen · 26/06/2017 15:19

Last i heard the admin to runs the means testing was going to cost more than the savings.

Grrrrrsnarl · 26/06/2017 15:34

Corbyn should be happy.
He gets more pension and continues to get the winter fuel allowance paid to him each year.....
After all he must really need it- just like all those in the house of lords.....
And us. Yippee.

mummymeister · 26/06/2017 15:34

its the dilemma of universal benefits. they aren't enough for those that really need them and depend on them and they are waste to give to people who are already wealthy.

the problem is the sheer cost of the means testing. it is more expensive to do the forms and the claim than just to pay a set amount across the board. its bonkers but that is the figures for you. they just don't add up.

all of these are now scuppered of course anyway because they got called "the dementia tax" which of course they weren't but jezza does love his sound bites.

we have an unsustainable situation. people retired for longer than they were in work and no one wanting to tackle the issue properly. every time they do you get trite sound bites like the one above and the football gets kicked down the road again.

healthyheart · 26/06/2017 15:38

It's just like the CB used to go to all including millionaires/royalty etc now its only to people earning less than £60k. Much better idea.

PassiveAgressiveQueen · 26/06/2017 16:07

It would be a better idea if it was fair, and looked at household income, one person working earning 61k doesn't get it but two people working both earning 55k do get it, how is that fair?

guinea36 · 26/06/2017 16:28

Not sure means testing wfa works out any cheaper once the cost of the mechanisms for doing so are factored in - so politically it would be an insane move. You would piss off the over 60s Tory contingent without saving anything.
However the triple lock is cripplingly expensive and seriously unfair towards younger generations. Really think there must be a way of guaranteeing a decent income for pensioners in a less costly way. Perhaps this is an area where means testing should apply ! Perhaps triple lock for the least well off and cpi linked increases for everyone else.

FormerlyFrikadela01 · 26/06/2017 16:34

mayhem - I did cover that as I am one of those who scrape about £12k per year and the WFP does help but we must all be prepared to take the tough decisions - something younger people need to realise.

Why so specifically something younger people need to realise? Pretty sure the so called "younger people" have taken their fair share of the "tough decisions" doled out by this government.

TulipsInAJug · 26/06/2017 16:36

YANBU. It was one of the few sensible policies in the Tory manifesto.

Petronius16 · 26/06/2017 16:57

Agreed it was a sensible policy but, as usual, handled badly.

As I started in teaching later in life, left early to work for free in my wife's business, because it was going bankrupt (we'd have lost house, everything) as a result of a the recession before the last one, our income is far less than average.

It makes sense to me to move benefits for the elderly into the tax system - thus our winter fuel allowance and free TV licence should be considered part of our income. Triple lock? Change to Retail Price Maintenance. Long before free passes, local county council offered 'free' passes to pensioners for £10(?) a year. Say £20 now.

Of course, people like Phillip Green, who pays little tax, would get away with it, but that's always s the case.

olliegarchy99 · 27/06/2017 16:03

It is not necessary to means test the £4 per week WFA.
As I said in an earlier post - just add it on to pension credit - as it is per household single PC recipients would get it added to the PC amount for singles and couples would get it added to their PC amount for couples.
I do not agree the triple lock is very expensive - it is 2% or so of very little (it is only applicable to the basic state pension amount) and it IS TAXABLE
Younger people are voting in the GE for their own selfish reasons - supporting Corbyn and his free university education, free everything when many of my generation would be prepared to lose some of the so-called very small 'perks' from a lifetime of tax-paying to get the country back on its feet. The young will come to realise there is no such thing as a free lunch - and do give examples of where the younger generation have had 'tough decisions' doled out to them by the government - I would be interested to know what they are.Hmm

GeorgeTheHamster · 27/06/2017 16:27

Pension credit is pretty much being phased out as the new state pension comes in, though, isn't it?

TalkinPeece · 27/06/2017 16:32

I know people who spend their winter fuel allowance at Majectic
who use their free bus pass to go to the ROH
and find the triple lock irritating as it pushes them further into the 40% tax band

The VAST VAST bulk of benefit spending goes to pensioners
but the young are demonised

and most pensioners never paid enough tax to cover their pensions, many never paid any at all

but looking after them is crippling the young

FormerlyFrikadela01 · 27/06/2017 16:32

Are you actually for fucking real? Only young people vote selfishly?????

You are aware that the voting age in this country is 18 therefore the majority of young people likely already tied into their huge tuition fees (currently £27k for most, but of course they haven't had any of the tough decisions) at the time of the election.
Of course not all young people do go university, some go into work, often minimum wage work that they are fairly paid for...... Oh wait, the so-called "living wage" applies only to the over 25s...but of course they haven't had any of the tough decisions.
I guess if they're on the minimum wage and struggling they can always apply for housing benefit... Oh wait, the eligibility rules for those aged 18-21 changed in April this year... But of course they haven't had any of the tough decisions.
Oh well working tax credits could top up their wage.... Oh wait, again the eligibility is different if you're under 25.

Pull your head out of your fucking arse and stop being so ignorant.

I could come on and complain about all these older people who only vote in their self interest with their final salary pensions and triple locked state pension and huge house price increase and free university tuition and whatever else those selfish fucking bastards get..... But I don't since I'm aware that older people aren't one homogeneous group in the same way young people aren't.

TalkinPeece · 27/06/2017 16:39

Younger people are voting in the GE for their own selfish reasons - supporting Corbyn and his free university education, free everything

I'm in my 50's
I got free University education.
I got a grant in fact - no loans at all, ever

My children will leave university with upwards of £50,000 of debt
and will never get a DB pension
and will never see house prices at around twice average earnings (as they were in the 1960's)

Young people did not vote for Corbyn because of the Tuition fees (I have a child at University, they understood that it was a pipe dream policy)
They voted for Corbyn because they are sick of Little England inward looking austerity.

Lucysky2017 · 27/06/2017 17:14

Means testing is expensive. I would support instead aeg eg none of these free things until you are say 83.

Also I though the triple lock is now inflation is up to 2.9% it out of the window anyway as they get inflation anyway which is 2.9%. If inflation were 0.25% or zero then it all kicks in and matters but those days seem over.

TalkinPeece · 27/06/2017 17:31

Means testing is expensive.
Agreed, insanely so.
If WFP and triple lock pension were linked to tax returns, that would be a simple way to limit it
and YY to raising the age limit for the universal to around 75/80
and then divert that money into pension benefits for those who really need

Then again I'm in favour of tweaking the Council Tax system (by adding bands up to Z) to create a land tax by the back door.

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