To feel sorry for this teacher

[limestrawberry]

Teacher sets homework to write a suicide note, based on Macbeth.

Terribly, terribly ill judged and misguided. But surely an apology is enough rather than this making the national press.

Almost any mistake or error of judgement a teacher makes reaches the press - sometimes local, sometimes national. Few other professions or jobs come with that consequence.
Even if they are found to be misrepresented, or even innocent, the damage is done - their positions become untenable and many have to move schools or even resign.
It's not hard to see why the profession is finding it hard to retain and recruit staff.

I had to write Lady Macbeths suicide note for my English gcse 20 years ago - no problem. Seem to remember I used some song lyrics and got away with it!

Some context please. I'm assuming it's Lady Macbeth's letter. In which case it could be just an exercise on empathy in showing an understanding off the play etc. Of course it's inappropriate but is that really the task " Write a suicode note", or was it to write a letter as a particular character?

Not sure I'd have a problem with it if it was one of my kids in that class. If it's done from the point of view of the character I think it's a valid way for the the children to think about a character's motivations.

So much venom for teachers on mumsnet. Why?

My thoughts entirely. Why do you hate us so much, ladies?

I'm a teacher and I've actually heard of this being done before, can't remember where but I've def heard a staff room convo somewhere over my 20 years teaching. It's hideously misguided but national news??

Jesus Christ almighty! Surely this might push a kid who was contemplating suicide over the edge. I'm dreading my DS getting to senior school. We managed all the way through without on person killing them selves, no racism or sexism, no one mentioned the fact one guy was very obviously gay, he was just (nAme)
With lots of female friends) no boys were demanding to use the girls changing rooms or loos cos they felt more female. Occasionally had a comment about my weight (but I survived), some Kids were arrested. But now everyone over the age of 12 seems to have a major issue to deal with. I can kind of see where the teacher is coming from. In my day it would have been an exercise in creative writing. Nowadays it's Russian roulette,

Just remembered rest of story

Was set by teacher. Child did and then parent found in child's bag and had no idea it was homework. Parent thought child, who had history of mh problems was planning suicide themselves. Can you imagine how awful that would be?

I home educate.
Life doesn't have anything that is "too sensitive" to deal with. Life doesnt say "children with find it hard to deal with suicide so I'll skip them having to worry about that."
If parents don't want their children covering any subject that parents might deem too tough.. they should teach their children themselves as the broad scope of sensitive issues means children are likely to cover at least a few, like it or not.

Could the frothing newcomers to the thread please read the updates which quite clearly give the exact context of the task and show that the Telegraph's reporting was misleading.

Yes why do so many people hate teachers so much? Everyone is so quick to criticise teachers and very very slow to offer any praise. Yet they give up so much of their own time to help kids, many of them buying extra stuff for classrooms, little incentive prizes for pupils and spending hours marking, writing reports and worrying themselves sick over observations and inspections. Give them a break!

YANBU

Ffs, this was an English lesson and in the context was absolutely fine.

It's part of life sadly, and 'protecting' teens by pretending things don't exist is actually counterproductive.

mrstiggy - because it's easier to criticise. So many 'expert' critics - wonder why they didnt become teachers?

I've set that work in my former life as an English teacher.

It went well. It's empathic writing, it's creative and it allowed me to check that the students understood the character concerned and her motivations/concerns.

The parent who went to the press is a dick. I'm sure her sensitive child needs her issues splashed all over the papers. Fgs.

I feel really sorry for this teacher and don't think that she or the school should be apologizing over the task.

My 14 year old dd studied Macbeth last year and I would have had no problem with her being asked to write Lady Macbeth's suicide note. It might have helped her to think more deeply about the character.

"So much venom for teachers on mumsnet. Why?

My thoughts entirely. Why do you hate us so much, ladies?"

I genuinely find this a really interesting question. I've already attempted to engage with it (Saturday, 18:05). What are your thoughts on it?

Was that when you inferred we were all abusive paedophiles? Can't quite recall if you had anything sane to add to the discussion or just that.

Forgive me for not scrolling back to reread your shit.

So, having scanned the thread, I think I'm right in saying that it was just a normal empathy task in a literature lesson. It is a total non-issue. The whole "write so-and-so's thoughts at this point in the play" is totally, utterly standard at GCSE. It just so happens that at this point in the play, Lady Macbeth is planning her death. So those are her thoughts. FFS. I'm not saying the theme of suicide isn't potentially traumatic...but... it's, erm, in the play. So it's not the task that's at fault, surely?

I do wonder about some people's agenda when they make a story out of nothing in this way.

Basil You suggested that 'most' people have encountered an abusive teacher either as a pupil or a parent. I find that equally saddening and offensive.

Frankly, I think the derision for teachers generally stems from the fact that everybody went to school. Most people realise that they are unable to perform open heart surgery but those same people generally feel that there isn't much to teaching and that most people could have a go at it.

I noticed that a week or two ago a non-British MNer tried to explain that in her culture, teachers were regarded as members of an intellectual class alongside academics, economists, philosophers etc. The idea of teachers being intellectuals was openly ridiculed. It's very depressing.

"Was that when you inferred we were all abusive paedophiles? "

Goodness, VintagePerfumista, what an odd, defensive thing to take from my post. I can't really engage with that and I don't suppose you're expecting me to, especially this late at night.

Leanne, I'm not sure if most people think they could have a go at teaching. Most people I've come across, are well aware that they couldn't and recoil with horror at the thought of trying it. However, I do agree with you that there is a perception that teachers are not intellectuals, particularly primary school teachers. I'm not sure that in itself would be enough to cause such hostility as teachers get though, it really is venomous at times, that's not too strong a word for it.

I am genuinely sorry you find the idea that many people have encountered at least one abusive teacher in their life, offensive. Abusers are everywhere, in every profession. Teaching's no different.

It also occurs to me that the bit about the parent potentially finding the homework and being thrown into a panic doesn't really make sense...

Firstly, the work is quite likely to be in an exercise book, with a title, date etc, or at least on file paper, with the kid's name on it.

Secondly, it'll say things like "I'm overcome with unassailable guilt over the death of King Duncan. My hands can never be clean of his blood..." Won't it?? And the parent will think "Oh, this is some work on the well-known play Macbeth."

I am genuinely sorry you find the idea that many people have encountered at least one abusive teacher in their life, offensive.

I don't find this offensive. I think it is a reasonable statement and sadly I agree that it is probably true.

But that is not what you said on Saturday. You said that 'most' people have 'experienced abusive teachers'. You compared the presence of abusers in the teaching profession to the systemic and widespread abuse of children within the Catholic Church and to the institutionalised abuse and discrimination of the police in relatively recent years. I found that offensive. I'm pleased to see that you have since dialled it back.

@merchantofvenice

These kids were told to write their own suicide note, not lady Macbeths. Like I say, I remember hearing this in the staff room at some point years ago.

Really, yellow? That's not what OP said a couple of pagee back; she said it was to be written in character

Obviously the two tasks are worlds apart. The 'in character' one is absolutely fine. The other... not so much.

I also inferred form your comments basil that a teacher setting a task asking students to empathise with Lady Macbeth's mental state was 'abusive'

It has made me rethink using this task, must admit as, now more than in the past, there is a recognition of MH issues in school and the whole thing can be a bit like walking on eggshells.

As I said before, often we teachers do not know anything of students' histories with MH so we can walk in completely oblivious to any potential harm. However, this would render the whole text (and indeed many texts) difficult.

My friend recently lost her DH and insisted her DS wasn't taught certain texts : it caused quite a hoo ha in the department as one of those was 'Christmas Carol'. I am still undecided whose side I am on in this...

Point of order btw : LM isn't planning her own death. She ahs completely lost control of her mind! I dodge this task generally because students point out she probably isn't capable of writing coherently. They are so pedantic!

On the subject of intellectualism. There was a little article in The Times yesterday about a young woman who excelled at school , did a degree in English and history at Dundee, then went to Durham to do a Masters and a PGCE at Durham (sounds pretty high achieving to me) and is embarking on a career as a primary teacher (not sure why you have to be an 'intellectual ' to be a primary teacher anyway. Educated, yes. ). I think there are issues about distrust of intellectualism in the profession itself sometimes, sadly : but it really isn't relevant to the thread.