How the hell to explain to DC why I'm withholding contact?

[Welshmaenad]

I have posted about this before, quite possibly under another name, but I don't really care about being outed anymore. I will try to be concise.

ExH and I separated 18 months. His previous girlfriend was lovely, got on well, happy for kids to be with her etc. He split with her in January. February new GF on scene. Late Feb incident (children not present) where she got drunk +++ at his house, picked a fight, broke up with him because he still got on with and communicated with me (she has 'major resentment issues' about me for reasons I don't understand) self harmed, then got in her car and drive off after 3/4 bottle of gin. He was whatsapping me throughout for advice as he thought she would attempt suicide. Told me she had mental health issues and was on medication at time of incident. When she got in her car, told me to move mine (live down the hill from him) in case she deliberately damaged it. Police were called but she'd come back by the time they attended so she wasn't arrested for drunk driving.

Amazingly he took her back. I have been insistent from this point on that I don't want her near my kids. He initially agreed, saying he would have her meet me first once she was 'recovered'. She refused. He then told me he wouldn't let them meet her without warning me, then took them to dinner with her in half term without my knowledge. I told him in no uncertain terms that she was not to be there with them overnight, to drink around them, or drive them anywhere. Following weekend he allowed all three, again without telling me - I found out from the kids - and did so on a weekend I was away and couldn't have come back easily to intervene had I found out. He refuses to acknowledge my concerns, just parrots that she is a 'totally different person now' without being able to articulate how or why. His behaviour has changed massively since he has been with her.

I am now insisting on no contact with her. I have involved social services who support my position and share my concerns and have advised me to withhold contact if he will not give an undertaking that she won't be around them. I'm a newly qualified social worker. I also sought advice from a tutor who agreed with my position and advised I would be negligent NOT to place parameters in contact. Three social workers telling him his children should be kept away from her and still he insists he knows better.

He's been offered the opportunity to have a contact agreement drawn up by my solicitor but has refused. I've filed for a court hearing for a prohibited steps order to prevent him bringing her into contact with them but hearing isn't until the end of July.

He is supposed to have the children this weekend and they were looking forward to going. However he has point blank refused to give me assurance that his GF won't be around them, so as per SS advice I have to withhold contact, and his position is that it's my job to break the news to them. How in the fuck do I do this without hurting them? I don't want to spoil their relationship with their dad in the hopes we can get things back on track but I need to make it clear that I'm doing this to keep them safe and I'm out of options here. They are aware that they are not to be around the GF and child friendly reasons why.

What do I say??

Sorry if I've missed vital info, I'm exhausted and stressed, I'm not trying to drip feed.

I would say that sometimes that just because adults are older, it doesn't mean that they are responsible. Explain that their father has chosen to be with someone who is not responsible enough to look after children. And although their father loves them very much, being around you (the children) is a special responsibility, and unfortunately, when ExH GF is around, they cannot be there.

Definitely tell them the truth in a child-friendly way, they're old enough to understand it. I'd say something along the lines of "Daddy's girlfriend is too ill right now to be safe around you so you can't go to daddy's until he is sure she won't be around while you are there" and see if you can do something special at the weekend to take their minds off it.

You are definitely doing the right thing and its great that you've got social workers backing you up. I hope your ex comes to senses soon and ensures girlfriend isn't around on his weekend with the kids. And definitely get maintenance sorted.

I would say that sometimes that just because adults are older, it doesn't mean that they are responsible. Explain that their father has chosen to be with someone who is not responsible enough to look after children. And although their father loves them very much, being around you (the children) is a special responsibility, and unfortunately, when ExH GF is around, they cannot be there.

I think that is a perfect way to say it.

Just putting it out there, do you think perhaps she is threatening him with suicide or self harm if he wont comply with what she wants? She obviously feels threatened by you so I wouldn't put it passed somebody like that to want to constantly be around when his kids are there so they wont "sway" him back to you or something. I knew somebody like that before.

Just seems odd to me that your exh has changed his behaviour from being a competent parent to a complete idiot without a reason.

Zoe is spot on!

I think you need to tread carefully here in case the girlfriend isn't out of the picture forever - if they have to meet her in future it maybe won't help if they become wary of her now.

What exactly is SS role here? Are they going to back you up that she can't be involved, or have they just given informal advice? If the latter they may not stand by it and back you up for the future.

Advice for now, but it has been formally recorded. SW actually recommended I call the police for support if he turns up trying to collect them and causes a scene, and to tell the police SS have advised me to prevent contact with her. CAFCASS will undertake safeguarding reports before the prohibited steps hearing.

If the PSO is granted by the court it prevents contact with her until they turn 16.

I think you need to tread carefully here in case the girlfriend isn't out of the picture forever - if they have to meet her in future it maybe won't help if they become wary of her now.

It sounds very much like it could help if they become wary of her. For instance they should contact their mother if anyone attempts to leave them alone with her, or if she tries to drive them somewhere drunk.

I think you should tell them a watered down version of the truth, especially as you can't trust their father.

Even after the PSO, he may still ignore advice and try and get your DC to be complicit in lying to you about what happens - so it's far better that they know the truth about why you're withholding contact now, so that when (ok, if) he breaches, they will know that it's Not Ok and they must tell you.

Tell them that you are keeping them safe, and that Daddy's girlfriend has a problem when she drinks, that makes it unsafe for them to ever go in the car with her driving, or to be left alone with her in case something were to happen and she needed to get them somewhere else in a hurry. Explain the practicalities, without bringing her personality into it. Ignore the effect on their father if you can - focus on her drinking issue as the main problem here.

But please tell them.

Do you know if it was just a one off and therefore could have recovered and is fine now? Would be a shame to cause so much hassle for a breakdown several months ago.

Jamie - if I remember correctly from.OPs last post, it wasn't just a one off and exh had spoken to OP a few times about his controlling GF

may be worth, at a different time, having a chat about being honest with you and trusting their instincts ('uh-oh' feelings) if they feel unsafe- all kids should have this anyway, but if their father can't be trusted as seems the case here, they need to know what to do if they feel unsafe. You can make it a game- 'what would you do if....' and give different scenarios....if the bath overflowed/if you felt ill at school/if you lost a toy you borrowed/if daddy's gf was being wierd...

Great idea newt! That would take the seriousness out of it, which could freak them out. It's a really good idea to get them thinking about how to act/react in certain situations.

thumbwitches advice sounds better than any I was about to type.

If she's doing nursing then find out where the placements are likely to be. Westminster send a lot out to Northwick Park (Harrow).

Sorry wrong thread

As a newly qualified social worker, surely this very common type of situation was covered during your training?
I am concerned as a pp mentioned that your decision may not be supported by SW's in future as it doesn't sound like you have any evidence of the gf's behaviour as she returned before the police arrived.

"At school, do you know some kids that you like and get on really well with but they like to hang around with a kid that doesn't know how to behave and who does things that might hurt others? (doesn't matter if they answer yes or no)

Well, I have been worried about your safety when you are with your Dad because of the company he keeps. I have spoken with some professional people who look after children's safety and wellbeing and they agree that you should not spend time with dad's friend - even if Dad is there too. Sadly, Dad doesn't agree and wants you to spend time with him and his friend. So Dad and I are waiting on a judge to decide whether it is safe and OK for you to be around Dad's friend or not. Until then, I am afraid you will not be able to stay with him or be anywhere near his friend. You can talk to him on the phone and you can have as much face time as you like but this is the way it needs to be at the moment.

laundry police classes the call as a concern for welfare but there will be a record that ExH called them because she had driven off drunk. I also have all the whatsapp messages from that night screenshotted and printed.

Jamie in terms of "incidents" this is the severe one I know about but I'm not prepared to take the chance that it won't happen again. I'm not sure how she us supposed to have recovered so quickly from long term mental health problems and she was on medication at the time it happened, it's not like she was untreated and is now treated. I do have multiple examples of her controlling behaviour, and resentment towards me which he has told me about on several occasions.

Had they respected my boundaries I might well have been reassured over time that she was more stable, but her disregard for my concerns and their insistence on sticking two fingers up at me by doing everything I asked them not to all in one weekend makes me more concerned than ever.

Just wanted to update - went with the gentle truth. The kids were upset and angry, but with their dad, not with me. They understood the reasons behind what I was doing. My ten year old gave her father a very firm and reasoned piece of her mind and as a result he has now capitulated and given me written assurance that the GF will not be there on contact days up until the date of the court hearing. The kids stayed with me this weekend as she was there and he wouldn't send her home but contact is resuming on Tuesday. I am relieved but still wary they won't stick to it so will be monitoring closely.

Thank you all for your advice and support, I really appreciate it.

That sounds very positive that he's given written assurance now, hopefully he will stick to it.

Well done Welsh and well done your DD. Hopefully the written assurance means he'll stick to it, very positive that he's put it in writing before the court date. And if your DC are aware of what's "allowed" they'll police it for you too. Does DD have access to a mobile to contact you when she's at her dad's? If not perhaps now's the time for one.

well done to your dd, it will have hit home harder hearing from your DD than it will from you, I hope he keeps his word and that contact can resume without issue

Best decision, Welsh, well done.

She does have a mobile, squirrels, which is a good job because he's blocked me on whatsapp and will only communicate via email now which is not ideal in emergencies. At least I can still contact them when they are with him via her phone.