To think all tower blocks should be demolished.

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Rather than fitting sprinklers in old blocks should they all just be condemned and the residents quickly relocated.

When tower blocks for poor people were very fashionable (especially among those who would never have to live in them) it was said that they provided better living conditions than all those horrible, cramped working-class terraced houses with their smoky chimneys and crumbling brickwork.

Now bright young architects live in the remaining gentrified terraced houses, which might sell for a million apiece.

The real problem is that poor people's houses get neglected and run down, whether they're high or low.

The density of people per square mile was about the same in 1970's blocks as in the terraced streets they replaced. You might recall they used to have open space and grassland round them.

The fire appliances could hardly get close to Grenfell, because extra developments had been shoehorned in, and the narrow streets were clogged with parked cars.

Are we only talking about council towers, or the private ones with multi-million pound flats in them

I guess if they are genuinely fire proof then it is fine. If there is such a thing? It just really freaked me out that the firefighters could only get so high, then that was it.

spending public money on refurbishing homes - can we afford it?

spending public money on refurbishing homes - can we afford it?

Yes believeit

My taxes, which could very usefully be used in the relatively poor part of the UK in which I live are being used to contribute to soaring house prices in London and the southeast, which just results in poverty there too.

The real problem is that poor people's houses get neglected and run down, whether they're high or low.
This. In the small town where I grew up, a whole area of run-down housing was demolished in the 1970s. It was the sort of housing that survives elsewhere in town and is 'highly sought after' i.e. sells for a small fortune, now that it has proper plumbing and the roof's been fixed.

There has been a lot of new social housing built in my area over that last few years, beautiful homes. Underfloor heating, solar panels, nice kitchens etc. Why do some areas get this and not others?

I think tower blocks don't work for council housing because of all the problems mentioned by others (fire risk is not the biggest problem byba long way). For rich people it's different because there aren't going to be the same problems with druggies and broken lifts. Council housing is better off being at ground level IMO. And yes there are lots of empty terraces in the north but they are not council owned so it's not as if council tenants are turning them down.

There should be a long term plan to replace tower blocks over the next say 20 years but checking them for safety should be done immediately.

Saucy Jack - my point is that some
posters are suggesting that the places standing empty up North are in total shit holes and that really isn't the case. Yes these places are not cosmopolitan but the people are generally total salt of the earth, very generous and kind and I just get a bit sick of the general assumption on MN that no one would actively choose to live up North! I'm probably being a bit sensitive though - hormones!! But it drives me mad! Totally agree with you though that all people should be able to live where they are connected to family and friends but I think it would also be great if there was more awareness of how lovely the North East of England is so that some people might consider it an option for relocation in order to have a better quality of life in decent accommodation!

All of this is why government intervention is needed to control rents. And to create adequate social housing where it is needed. Government also need to work to decentralise so that it's not all about London. It seems such an alien concept to us but there is no reason why it should not be like this. It shouldn't be all about the free market. This is where you end up if cash is king and there is no thought for people!

Jeremy - is that you? Slow day at the office?

Having lived in a few shitty tower blocks yes I think they should all be got rid of although I don't think it can be done quickly or easily.

I also think in the future all these 'luxury' flats they've built will become just the same as the tower blocks now.

I presume you mean in an ideal world..... Yes I totally agree.

There are plenty of 'luxury' flats being built now which you can see are going to be the slums of the future but it's not always the tower blocks. Just anything being thrown up shoddily and crammed together to try and get too many residences into the space.

So you think that it would be possible to ban the square 1 staircase type of flats? I would have thought that it would be much safer to have a firesafe staircase at each end of the building to limit the amount of people getting trapped by toxic smoke.

In a Perfect World - yes for lots of reasons. However, just because 1 fire since 1950's had a devastating death toll I don't think we can jump to that conclusion too quickly. There a nodoubt numerous factors involved.

I do however think that fire safety needs serious addressing to perhaps include some kind of pap testing if appliances although I have no idea how!!

@Hereslookingatyoukid I live in the NE, ffs! I live in a terrace in the NE, not all that far from some of the places I mentioned. Many of those streets have the exact same problems with damp, leaking roofs, drugs, antisocial behaviour etc etc mentioned upthread in relation to flats. The only advantage being that its not that far to jump if there's a fire. More of an uphill struggle for work, though, if you're not skilled.

The exsiting tower blocks can be replaced with plenty of new ones which will have sprinklers and other fire safety conditions.

I agree about decentralisation - our own council is doing it, moving out of the administrative centre (Affectionately known in this family as Cunty Hall) into smaller premises out of town, probably without sprung dancefloors.

The BBC's move of any of its operations to Salford was a shrewd one - good for the license fee and good for Salford. It's not so simple with private business though, is it? Maybe London will lose its advantageous proximity to Europe once we've severed those ties and burnt the ropes for good measure. In these days of teleconferencing, meeting face to face in an office is surely becoming less essential, for many purposes, though?

And where is everyone going to live while they are being demolished and rebuilt?

Taking a holistic view that real problem is how do we spread employment more evenly throughout the country, thus reducing the need for a population density problem to which the logical solution is to stack housing upwards.

Yes IMO these tower blocks should be confined to the history books and I can not imagine many of the couple of million people who reside within the 4000 or so blocks which exist in this country now feel quite as safe and secure as people should do in their own home.

MissDuke Where in the country are you?

My family operate a HA and we renovated the homes in the mid 90s when they were being sold off. We were asked to take over the management of a tower block and declined because it was more than we were comfortable managing.

Our housing is designed to include certain design 'features' such as outdoor space (garden or balcony), a toilet on each floor of a home split over more than one floor and a place for a dining table for four people.

We take maintenance seriously and have plumbers, electricians and general builders on staff who can fix things 24/7. We are also looking at innovative ideas such as solar panels to eliminate electricity bills for residents and figuring out parking solutions.

I also concur that a huge problem with tower blocks is overcrowding. We are extremely strict and don't allow it. More than 4 people to a one bed is unsafe and unhealthy. We also must have residents registered.

Our tenants are either working poor, disabled or retired. Those who are disruptive are dealt with quickly. Yes it is harsh but why should the vast majority of peaceful residents have to deal with the one household that disrupts the peace.

We are able to do all of this because we don't pay ourselves salaries. Those who are paid a salary earn normal amounts. The highest salary is £75k a year. We also don't fund staff jaunts to places like Uganda. If you want time off to volunteer we have plenty of people in our immediate area who need help and are generous with allowing staff the time off to do this.

Who asked about life in a tower block and whether it's a community? I think like anything else it hugely depends. Here's a positive account:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/19/grew-up-london-council-block-wonderful-place-call-home

Of course others report terrible conditions, fear and crime and damp so it must depend on who is living there and what the situation is like.

I grew up in tower blocks, one was particularly bad, there was needles taped to the underside of banisters, people toileting in lifts (also smearing), bin fires, fighting, drug users in corridors, rapes, drug deals and a murder in the basement car park (which is now fenced off so no one can get in I discovered) etc etc.

Another tower block I lived in was lovely. A real happy community.