School not offering Spanish GCSE because it's too hard

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DS has really enjoyed French in Yr 7 and was looking forward to doing Spanish in Yr 9. However, the school have announced they won't be offering it as the new GCSE exam is too difficult and they wouldn't be able to get the children to the required standard in two years.

Anyone else's school doing this?
Are the school being reasonable or is it a cop out?

As a Spanish native speaker I think this is sad. My question is, are they not able to learn any other new language in year 9?

I don't think Spanish is necessarily easy or hard though. Yes it is easier if you already know French of course but some children will pick up languages easier than others, as adults do too.

So are they offer another language? Because if they are then I feel it is a bit crap. There are plenty of Spanish teachers in this country

At my school we did A level Spanish in two years but we had to have good O Level pass rates in French shows sign of age. So two years to GCSE standard doesn't sound impossible. Spanish is easier, I believe, because eg the tenses more closely correspond with English.

Is it worth asking to speak to the school about it? especially after talking to other parents whose children might want to do it? You could always ask the teacher who would have taught it to explain what the more rigorous elements are.

I don't see why we have to have Spanish in schools anyway, it's not like this is America where it's needed.

French and German were perfectly adequate in my day.

Would one of the MFL teachers care to summarise the main differences between old and new?
Old

• preprepare oral, learn off by heart, prompt words, one unknown x2 30%
• preprepare written, learn off by heart, prompt words x2 30%
• listening paper foundation/higher tier 20%
• comprehension paper foundation/higher tier 20%
• Could get a B grade knowing 3 tenses.

I don't see why we have to have Spanish in schools anyway, it's not like this is America where it's needed.

ODFOD.

25% even split across all skills. All exam, no controlled assessments. Return to role play and picture description in speaking. And then grammar, grammar, grammar. You could previously get A* with half a brain, good will and a lot of vocal learning. Now you are going to have to genuinely 'get it'.

Thanks for replies. Jane - I appreciate your input as a MFL teacher.

*vocab learning

Sorry Butchy, of course you're right. Spanish will be very handy for all the uneducated chavs who aren't capable of doing anything with their time except pissing it up on the Costa Brava because they didn't learn anything actually useful in school. Silly me, how could I forget?

My DDs school has excellent MFL provision. Offering French, Spanish, German, Greek, Mandarin and even Japanese. They can also do Latin, though I realise that's not Modern exactly! Their school is a State school btw. They're not dropping any of them in light of the new GCSEs. If your school have the teachers but are dropping GCSEs because they can't get the children to the required standard, I think you need to write and ask the Governing board why.

Spanish is well supported by parents. French less so, German even less so now. To suggest it would only be relevant for holiday purposes kind of ignores the sheer numbers who speak it, it's importance in world terms, business (particularly potential), impact globally in cultural terms....I could go on. The world is changing. The lack of German is a worry from a business perspective, however.

Jane thank you.
I'm pleased the farce of pre-preparing and learning by rote has gone.

Actually sounds much more akin to the old O level so comparing old O level and new GCSE isn't that daft at all.

(DD1 did Spanish GCSE in 2 years. School now offers it from y9 in place of a tech subject. I'd like DD2 to give it a go in y9 even if she doesn't choose it for GCSE.)

Wow racheltable

"I don't see why we have to have Spanish in schools anyway, it's not like this is America where it's needed. "

Why teach history? Or art? Or music?

is too difficult for the current mfl teacher to teach with just her A Level in Spanish from 1990.

This is the problem. I'm a foreign languages graduate. I did Spanish to honours level, dropped French after a year. Had I gone into teaching, I would have been able to qualify to teach both. My French is better than A-level, but not much. Never lived in France, spent much time there apart from short holidays. (I could probably teach the basics through the first couple of years at secondary, would struggle with A-level though).

It would be lovely to allow only people with joint honours in two modern languages to go into teaching, or allow people like me who have honours in a foreign language and one other non-related subject to qualify in one language only. But there aren't many schools who could fund a full time Spanish teacher who isn't teaching French or something else instead. I don't believe the exam is too hard - language GSCEs are all pretty similar in levels. Thr truth is that there isn't the qualified staff to deliver the course.

Very sad to hear this. DD2 struggled with languages as she is dyslexic but managed a B grade after a 1 year intensive GCSE. I am sorry to hear that language teaching is going back to being grammar orientated rather than practical.

I imagine other schools will be taking it but some if not most of them will be offering it to students that started on Spanish in Y7 not starting in Y10.

It probably can be taught in just under 2 years but maybe not with the number of lesson slots available on the timetable as many schools have had to add extra English, Maths and Science to fit in the new specification so students have less time for other things.

I am sorry to hear that language teaching is going back to being grammar orientated rather than practical.

Cat I don't think that is a fair summary. The old system wasn't very practical in as much as you could get a good grade without being able to have a conversation or write simple prose on demand. Kids could be tutored on responses and then learn them by heart.

Sounds to me it is more grammar oriented and also more practical. Might be a lot to learn ab initio from y10 though.

People blithely saying it's a cop-out and that it's not difficult if you teach it properly don't have a clue what they are talking about. I've been an MFL teacher for 20 years. MFL is one of the subjects that kids, these days at least, find hardest, particularly those with lower literacy skills (of whom there are many) and problems such as dyslexia.

There are various other problems inherent in teaching MFL in our current education system. Total lack of understanding of English grammar generally, lack of recognition (by kids and parents) of MFL as a worthwhile subject, not enough curriculum time (languages ideally need little and often, not 2 one hour lessons a week), lack of interest in foreign culture and language (and little time to explore this because of the constraints of the curriculum).

Add to that the fact that in spite of tireless encouragement, many kids find the whole prospect of actually saying things in a foreign language and accent mortifying.

Also there is a complete lack of joined-up thinking between primary and secondary in terms of which languages are studied. Few primaries have an actual MFL teacher. So kids turn up at secondary and all have to start from scratch, which is a real turn-off for those who have actually managed to learn something at primary.

And another thing - I think doing Spanish with French is actually a mistake anyway. Many many kids get dreadfully confused between the two because they are quite similar. My local secondary starts French and Spanish together in yr 7. It's bonkers. You're lucky if they answer the register in the right language tbh.

And that's without even mentioning the difficulties of the new GCSE. I have worked in quite a few schools, with excellent and dedicated MFL teachers. They are fighting a losing battle. Learning a language is hard unless you are very very motivated, naturally talented or in a position where you get a lot of practice. Most people are none of these.

The people who express disbelief that MFL are hard are (in my experience) often from very middle class, aspirational bacgrounds, with educated, articulate parents who highly value literature, culture and travel and who approve of learning for learning's sake.

Apologies for the essay. I found learning MFL very easy and enjoyable. Teaching it is not easy at all.

I am sorry to hear that language teaching is going back to being grammar orientated rather than practical

There was nothing remotely practical about being able to discuss a learnt by heart pre prepared piece of work on your holidays for 4-6 minutes in 5 different tenses

Oh and one very last thing - people are always going on about MFL being useful in the job market, but what proportion of people honestly use their GCSE Spanish or French for anything more than holidays? Tell most working class kids that Spanish will be useful in their future jobs and they will look at you like this . I know that sounds defeatist, but that's how it is unfortunately.

Just a thought but would the school let you sit the exam at school but be taught outside.
This would be half the battle as won't need to find an invigilator or exam centre external to school.

My dd school are allowing this as long as she follows the same board the school use for French and German, in their case AQA.

Total lack of understanding of English grammar

To be fair, this isn't a new thing, Eolian. I remember doing Higher French and Spanish at school and the teachers having to go through things like subjects and objects in sentences - essential when you're learning things like prepositions. That's before you get into things like the subjunctive tense which I don't think was ever mentioned in an English class and besides, nearly everyone says "If I was rich" anyway.

It boils down to the fact that languages aren't respected. Many people think learning French/Spanish/German is pretty pointless as everyone speaks English. Native English speakers on the whole are very lazy and unmotivated when it comes to learning another language.

(Feeling nostalgic for the Language Labs where we used to sit in booths and talk onto tapes)

TeenAndTween

Actually sounds much more akin to the old O level so comparing old O level and new GCSE isn't that daft at all.

Nope it is still daft, they are not the same.