To think

[PurplePancake]

That we will never know the true number of people that died in horrific circumstances in the grenfell fire.
I imagine that many of the people living in these flats were illegally staying here, probably illegally subletting, so a flat which would have been designed to house 4/5 people would have actually been housing anything between 10-14 people. These people will not be identified, legally they did not exist.
Not trying to make a point other than how sad.

I don't know about the subletting but I agree with you there was a voluntèer i saw saying the same as you poor woman was distraught

I said this in another thread. Often you'll get a 3 bed flat that is turned into 4 separate domiciles for families with shared kitchen and bathroom. All off the books and done on rolling contracts.

I doubt we'll ever know the true extent sadly

Some of the flats were privately owned weren't they so you are probably sadly right.

I think we'll know the actual numbers as the recovery operation progresses because it takes incredible forces to reduce a full body to absolutely nothing. They will find the evidence. What I'm certain we won't know its the identities of all the victims. I suspect quite a few will be unclaimed/unreported as missing and therefore highly likely to be unidentified sadly.

I think you're right. It's awful to think of people - whole families, even, dead and no-one knowing or remembering them.

It's possible the building will be torn down before all bodies have been recovered so there won't necessarily be a tally that way.

Just horrible

Esmeralda that's probably a better way of putting it. I just suddenly thought of this yesterday and it's so sad I know losing a family member is horrific but at least if they are identified you can grieve and do what you want to respect them etc I'm rambling but it's just so sad

Yeah I think the building will be torn down before all bodies found and it's just horrific to think of. Feel blessed to have my family

Unless the building is completely unsafe I don't think it will be brought down when bodies are reasonably suspected to still be in situ. It's possibly a legal offence I think. But that asides, the search & recovery could take weeks - people want answers and god knows they deserve them, but it will take lots and lots of time - far more than most people realise - to compete the job properly. It's painstaking, precise work, and incredibly traumatic for those searching each room, each flat, each floor. There will need to be physical safety assessments before a team goes in to each section, specialist equipment, changes of personnel, chasing up potential missing persons reports, waiting for medical/dental records (days? a week?), potential DNA tests etc etc. We will be seeing the aftermath reported for months.

We said this yesterday, the floor plans show 4 x 2 bed flats and 2 x 1 bed flats on each floor. So assuming a reasonable average occupancy of 2 x adults and 3 children in a 2 bed, and 2 x adults in a single bed flat then you're looking at (4 x 5 x 27 plus 2 x 2 x 27) 650 people, not the 2,000 people assumed. There will be a large amount of people who are 'under the radar' and people sheltering them at the time/rogue landlords/subletters won't speak our for fear of trouble.

I was reading an online blog the other day regarding Newham council. I'll summarise, chap went to visit his aunt on her 97th birthday, she is the only white person in her street, not something that bothers her at all, all her neighbours are lovely and caring and keep an eye on her, arrived with cakes and flowers and spoilt her. However all the adjoining properties have (and I quote) 'brick built slums' at the bottom of the garden which flout planning laws. These house the illegals smuggled in to work in all the fast foot business that generally spring up round large migrant populations.

There are lots of properties like this.

Alot of these properties will have more than the safe number or registered occupiers.

Some probably down to slum landlords. Some down to people tryong to reduce their living costs and crowding people they know in.

We will find out the number and it will be higher than expected. Alot of people wont have been reported missing. Its so sad.