to think they shouldn't send you to prison for taking a picture of a corpse

[pisacake]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4611862/Man-jailed-posting-Grenfell-Tower-victim-picture.html

Apparently Mr. Mwaikambo, who is of Tanzanian origin or extraction, opened a body bag at the Grenfell Tower and posted the picture on Facebook.

I'm not sure about Tanzania, but I am in Indonesia and it's very common to post selfies with dead (i.e. in the moments after they die) relatives etc. on Facebook. There was a case earlier this year where a Western man died and the local newspaper published multiple shots of him dead, dressed only in his underpants with blood coming out of his nose etc. Those photos remain online.

Obviously this is not the done thing in England, but it seems that someone they have come up with a fairly arbitrary charge (sending obscene materials over the internet) - there's no law against what he did, per se - and whacked a rather stiff sentence on him.

I'm not saying he was right to do it, but it seems that there is an excessive sentence for someone who broadcast to a fairly limited number of people (he has a couple of hundred friends on Facebook), something which inherently is more about outrage at the fire than the fact of what he did.

The law used is obscenity, but the photos are no more obscene than going to Tanzania/other parts of Africa and taking pictures of dead Africans to be broadcast on the news, or photos of the deceased Gaddafi (widely distributed in Western media) or whatever. The obscenity is the fire, but Mr. Mwaikambo is in no way responsible for that.

Bollocks to culture.
He got what he deserved.

Vile behaviour - he got what he deserved.

Oh ffs, are you serious Op? There isn't a law that specifically uses the words "you must not open a body bag and take photos to put on Facebook" so therefore it's absolutely fine? Don't be so ridiculous.

For some reason you are weirdly invested in minimising what this man did. The bodies of the dead deserve to be treated with respect, the bereaved deserve not to have to see their loved ones broken, burned body put up on social media. This is not difficult to get your head round, in fact I think there is something wrong wit a person who refuses to grasp that.

I have not read the thread, I apologise if this has been said.
The photo he posted was a victim of the Grenfell Tower iirc.
It's disqusting because the family may not have been told, furthermore we don't know the injuries of the dead person, totally bad taste when so many people are suffering in such horrid circumstances.

The fact that people were commenting on the post, telling him how disgusting it was and advising him to find a member of the emergency services if he was distressed by the body being there shows that he realised, shortly after posting it was not a 'cultural norm' in our country and that his actions were distressing to many. He did not take down the pictures. They weren't removed until the Police removed them.

He can't blame cultural misunderstanding for keeping them up so long. He did this for attention.

It may not be that unusual to commit a non violent offence just before a weekend, get arrested, get charged and get sentenced so quickly.
But I do not believe its 'very normal'

It is actually very normal. Cases which fall within the magistrates court's sentencing jurisdiction are processed quickly. they're just not put in the public domain. This case is obviously different.

This is so wrong on many levels. Including the fact that this is someone's family member or friend who died in a way which may have left them disfigured or completely burnt. There is also an ongoing investigation, the coroner has to confirm cause of death etc. So you're also tampering with evidence.

Let's be respectful of those who are affected by this horrific tragedy and those who need to find the cause of this so we can prevent it from happening again.

Some parts of indonesia also dig up dead relatives annually for dinner - hint - you'd also get arrested in a lot of countries for that.

what the actual fuck have other cultural practices got to do with this given the op has stated they have no idea what this particular persons culture is?

Are you after a general discussion on the uk's and wider western cultures attitude towards death? Fine - go off and start one. Why use such a recent example in such an obtuse manner?

I don't know about your culture but it's pretty lacking in social skills to believe you'll get a calm well thought out discussion using such a fresh tragedy.

Thats another point - I'm surprised he wasn't prosecuted for tampering with evidence?

If, as we're told, the purpose of Mumsnet is "to make parents' lives easier", I wonder if OP has considered how the victim's family might feel, should they discover that some tasteless poster is trying to justify this ... haven't they been through enough already without insult being added to injury?

Anyway, thread reported

Frankly, I don't care about his culture regarding to taking photos of dead people. He is in the UK and here such morbid things have died out a long time ago. Three months in prison will hopefully be long enough for him to realise what a stupid thing he's done.

2 points you have mentioned:

He didn't cause harm, you say.

You do not know whether he caused harm. It could have caused harm to a family member of his or friend seeing a picture of their dead relative without even knowing that person was in fact dead.

In any event the offence he committed was to post something that was likely to cause offence. It does not matter you or Indonesians were not offended. In this country the reasonableness test of would the ordinary man on the Clapham omnibus be offended and you can ascertain from the very many responses on this thread saying that it is offensive that he did this means he would be found to have offended people.

What did he do to warrant higher culpability?
Well as well as merely picturing and posting he put a caption to the photo.
The authorities are not releasing names of those who died until they have been formally identified and families notified. He took it upon himself to announce the death by posting the picture and also upsetting people further by stating the body had been there for 2 hours.

The emergency services were doing a tremendous job getting people out of the building and dealing with the injured, the burnt and wounded, those who had suffered smoke inhalation etc and using all available ambulances to get these people in dire need of hospital treatment to hospital. Awful as it is, the dead bodies could wait until that was finished with.

He was offensive and serving an appropriate sentence.

And this is the most goady thread I have ever seen on MN.

Ignorance of the law is not a defence in this country either.

I spend some time in Tanzania and Kenya. The people in the villages actually went out of their way to avoid having their photographs taken (and we didn't take photos). We were told they were afraid of cameras as they thought they stole a person's soul. This was only about 25 years ago.

Taking photos of the dead can't be an integral part of that culture, most of the people living there wouldn't even have had access to cameras until recent decades.

That 'body', was a person.

OP wins your neck in. You've made your point and, guess what, no one agrees with you. So fuck off.

My Dad died traumatically and I chose not to see him in that state. The relatives in this case were denied that choice and that's morally unacceptable. Wherever you come from.

It doesn't matter if you don't agree with the judges interpretation of the law OP.
The fact of the matter is there IS a law, which the judge believed the man had broken.
You're acting confused like they sentenced him for a completely unrelated crime.
It clearly is a crime, hence why he's been jailed.
Not difficult to understand: Judges interpretation of law > Your interpretation of law.
As a pp has said, I don't understand why you're so invested in minimising his actions. Odd

The problem was opening the body bag. He might well have contaminated the DNA evidence needed for identification.

OP you asked if YWBU - and the universal answer is yes, very fucking U. Yet you persist? Clearly you don't give a flying fuck whether your view of this is U or not, clearly that is not why you posted or else you wouldn't still be persisting in your defensive drivel.

The emergency services afforded him as much care and then dignity as they would have been able to manage in the midst of an ongoing and unfolding disaster of epic proportions, and then some freak twat thinks they have the right to remove that dignity?

And enough of the 'cultural' BS (esp. as it's not even directly relevant as this was not a loved one wanting to be with his deceased), this is the UK - just as I behave appropriately when visiting other countries and respecting their norms and laws so should others when they either visit or come to live here.

Nasty goady thread.

I agree with OP... at least I agree to extent I have scanned thru thread, it's long & maybe I missed something.

Community service or fine would have been better. Expensive place prison to stick someone for a non-violent crime that only indirectly harmed anyone (by being tasteless).

If you don't understand that it's not the done thing in the UK to unzip body bags and take pictures of dead people, you probably shouldn't be in the UK.

If he's lived here longer than six months, you know that's not fucking okay. He still did it, and I'm glad he got a prison sentence. It should have been longer.

It's a pity our courts don't deal with all offenders so swiftly and appropriately.

The problem was opening the body bag. He might well have contaminated the DNA evidence needed for identification.

This is a very good point and I wonder why he wasn't charged for "tampering with evidence" (I think the offense would be)

I still think a custodial sentence was disproportionate given that his actions were stupid, thoughtless, offensive and sickening, but seemingly not deliberately malicious.

Contrast with the twitter trolls who can threaten to rape a woman, call for her to be killed, post her name and address and encourage people to harm her, but end up with a suspended sentence or a fine and community service (or fuck all, because the CPS decide that "it's not in the public interest" to prosecute.)

There is no actual harm here. He didn't defile the corpse or something. The images were circulated to a small number of people and are gone from the internet. Yes people are outraged but that's not really the same thing as causing harm.

When someone dies in circumstances like this their body becomes 'the property of the coroner', relatives are not allowed to touch the body or may only have very limited contact such as being allowed to kiss a deceased child.

Whatever his culture he couldn't see anyone else taking pics could he? Or crossing cordons?

When I am 'in another culture' which can be in another country or a place I am not used to visiting I take me cue from those around me. So when I have been in a Gurdwarra I take off my shoes and cover my head.

It isn't rocket science.