About some religious beliefs?

[MissionItsPossible]

Yes this is a hot topic. I'm watching One Born Every Minute and there is a Jehovah's Witness couple on there and the wife is about to have a baby. But they are worried about if she loses too much blood and dies. AIBU to wonder how how can a religious belief that is not proved by any form of God can trump potentially losing the love of your life by a medical operation that could save them? I'm not religious so maybe don't understand but I can't understand how in any religion, against whatever beliefs, you could deny someone you made, or someone you gave birth to, or someone you just love in general against a medical and important operation, refuse operations over the genders/ethnicity of the doctors/nurses operating. As said I am not religious so maybe just don't understand but if I was involved in a religion that didn't believe in blood transfusions and it aspired that it was the only thing that was a chance to save my child, like HOW could I even contemplate dismissing that over faith?

What I find interesting about religions is they do not think that humans can be naturally altruistic.

Not a JW so this may not be relevant to their faith, but if you do actually believe that death is a start of a new and infinitely longer life, and that things you do (or things that happen to you) can make a difference to whether that longer life is a happy or miserable one, then there is a logic to it. It's the idea that Life is Precious but Life on Earth is not the only life there is.

In an emergency situation it would just be given, we have to act in the best interest of the child.

But can you, if the parents are there absolutely forbidding it? Or indeed if a Gillick competent child is refusing to agree?

first there are medications to stop hemorrhaging, several different types of iv solutions and some other non blood products that can be accepted.
I believe TV's take advantage of the situation for the drama

specific to jws corythat dying doesnt guarantee an afterlife weird

personally have no use for religion
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1. God is not a Trinity; the doctrine is inspired by the Devil
2. Jesus is not to be worshiped or prayed to-he is only an angel (a.k.a. Michael the archangel)
3. Jesus Christ is a "created being," who at one time did not exist
4. The Holy Spirit is not a person but is "God's active force" i.e. gravity, electricity etc.
5. Heaven is hope only for select Jehovah's Witnesses. The majority of JWs hope to live on "paradise earth"
6. Heaven is limited only to 144,000 Jehovah's Witnesses.There are only 9,105 alive today (2006 figures)
7. Jehovah's Witnesses are the only "true Christians." All churches and denominations are considered "false religion"
8. There is no Hell or eternal judgment ("Hell" is simply the grave)
9. There is no life after death except for the 144,000 Jehovah's Witnesses

10. Salvation is earned only by being a loyal Jehovah's Witness 11. Jesus second coming happened invisibly and secretly in 1914 12. The "first resurrection" occurred in 1918 13. Jesus did not rise from the dead bodily but as a spirit being 14. Jesus was equal to Adam (just a man) 15. Jesus could have sinned and failed in his mission 16. Jesus was not born the savior but became the savior at his baptism 17. God is not omnipresent 18. God is not omniscient 19. JWs are not sure of their salvation 20. All earthly governments are controlled by the Devil 21. The Holy Spirit is only available to select Jehovah's Witnesses 22. They are forbidden to serve in the military 23. They are forbidden to buy Girl Scout cookies 30. They are forbidden to celebrate any holidays (Christmas, Easter, etc.) 31. They are forbidden to celebrate their birthday 32. They are forbidden to run for or hold a political office 33. They are forbidden to vote in any political campaign 34. They are forbidden to serve on a jury 35. They are forbidden to own or wear a cross 36. They are forbidden to speak to former members who are shunned (disfellowshipped) 37. They are forbidden to accept Christmas gifts 38. They are forbidden to purchase Christian products (books, music, plaques, pictures etc.) 39. They are forbidden to read Christian literature 40. They are forbidden to have friends who are not Jehovah's Witnesses 41. They are forbidden to marry a non-Jehovah's Witness 42. They are forbidden to salute the flag, stand for the national anthem, or own a flag 43. They are forbidden to say "God bless you" when someone sneezes. 44. They are forbidden to have a tattoo 45. They are forbidden to use pet foods made with blood or blood products 46. They are forbidden to donate blood or their organs 47. They are forbidden to read any anti-Jehovah's Witness material 48. They are forbidden to interpret the Bible without Watchtower literature to explain it 49. They are forbidden to wear any Christian jewelry 50. They are forbidden to support their country and be patriotic 51. They are forbidden to be involved in martial arts, boxing or wrestling 52. They are forbidden to join any clubs or sports teams 53. They are forbidden to participate in a school play 54. They are forbidden to use any tobacco products 55. They are forbidden to attend the funeral of an ex-Jehovah's Witness 56. They are forbidden to say "good luck" 57. They are forbidden to be a police officer 58. Women are forbidden pray in the presence of men without a hat or head covering 59. They are forbidden to play chess 60. They are forbidden to wear jade jewelry 61. They must not own wind-chimes (they are for chasing away evil spirits) 62. They must read and study Watchtower literature regularly 63. They must go from door to door weekly to gain converts 64. They must attend five meetings per week 65. Only officially approved sexual practices are allowed in marriage 66. Jehovah's Witness Kingdom Halls have no windows 67. If they witness another Jehovah's Witness breaking the rules they must report them to the elders to be interrogated 68. They are forbidden to take a blood transfusion 69. Men are forbidden wear beards 70. The Watchtower organization is God's prophet on earth today 71. Women must submit to the authority of Watchtower elders 72. They must forgo vacations to attend annual conventions 73. They must study Watchtower books at least six months before they can be baptized 74. Before baptism, one must answer over 80 Bible questions with Scripture references in front of a panel of elders 75. Most of The Book of Revelation applies to the Jehovah's Witnesses 76. They cannot celebrate Mothers or Fathers day (it may produce pride) 77. Kingdom Halls cannot have pews for seating 78. They must appear before a Judicial Committee if they are caught breaking Watchtower rules (Secret files are kept on all members which record these meetings-these files are kept in New York and are never destroyed) 79. All pastors are the "Antichrist" 80. All churches are of Satan 81. God only speaks through the "Governing Body" in Brooklyn, New York 82. They are discouraged from attending college 83. The Lord's supper is only to be eaten by select Jehovah's Witnesses (144,000 group-99.99% of Jehovah's Witnesses are forbidden from taking the Lord's supper) 84. The Lord's supper can only be celebrated annually 85. JWs in times of crisis, are strongly discouraged from consulting with family counselors, including mental health professionals who are not Jehovah's Witnesses 86. Only faithful Jehovah's Witnesses will survive Armageddon 87. If they have a non-Witness spouse their first loyalty is to the elders over their spouse 88. Angels direct the Watchtower organization 89. Judgment day is 1000 years long 90. If you leave Jehovah's Witnesses or are expelled from the organization you will not be resurrected 91. Only Jehovah's Witness prayers are heard by God 92. Man's salvation is secondary in God's plan; Jesus was sent to "vindicate Jehovah's name" 93. God will destroy all non-Jehovah's Witnesses at Armageddon 94. They are strongly discouraged from giving to charity (except Watchtower causes) 95. They must never enter a church building 96. They must never attend a church service 97. They are discouraged from buying a two door car-A "Theocratic" or "spiritually strong" Jehovah's Witness will have a full size car for the door to door work 98. Men must wear short hair 99. They must refer to all Jehovah's Witnesses as "brother" or "sister" 100. They can never question what is printed in Watchtower literature 10l. They must report their witnessing activity to the elders

Religion and science/medicine are always going to be in a problematic relationship.

The one that amuses me is the number of immunisations that were developed via aborted fetuses. I also dont know why people protest outside abortion clinics as opposed to the greater "loss of life" that happens in fertility clinics. Its as if they don't understand science and prefer attacking women.

This happened to my friend's brother a long time ago. She was my school friend, and a Jehovah's Witness. Her brother was in a car accident, and the doctors said he would probably need a blood transfusion. Parents refused. Doctors did everything they could, and saved him without doing the blood transfusion. Thankfully.

But from that day on, both my friend and her brother thought very little of their parents putting their faith before his life.

In an emergency situation it would just be given, we have to act in the best interest of the child.

But can you, if the parents are there absolutely forbidding it? Or indeed if a Gillick competent child is refusing to agree?

If the parents have refused all blood and products, and are clear in their understanding of what such a refusal may result in (ie the death of the child) then no, we are not allowed to give blood or blood products. We can do the best we can to keep the child alive while someone gets an emergency court order to make them a ward of court so that blood can be given but this is huge. The child is then ostracised from the community and there are massive repercussions. But - they have a chance of being alive.

I don't agree with that mindset either, of not getting medical help and blood transfusions when needed. I am Christian though and a believer. One of the pp mentioned someone who loved God more than her husband and children....generally when people say they put God first in their life, they mean that they uphold all that that means, including loving your neighbor (everyone) as yourself, to love your husband and children fully, not love your family less, and to do the right thing even if a family member disagrees for instance, if that makes sense. To do otherwise would be doing the opposite of what believing in God is all about. I can understand the atheist view too, we all come to conclusions or leanings based on our personal experiences.

the 1-100 are JW "laws

i do not believe in that
as for coming to conclusions based on learning/mother was catholic so i was baptized/only she got ostrasized by the church for being divorced in 1959/rather than stay with an alcoholic abusive dick
some very famous baptist preachers in the fam too.
so i wasnt raised a barbarian.
came to conclusions all on my own
actually i am not an atheist just because i dont believe in religion.

religion and believing in a creator are not the same thing.
btw christ didnt approve of churches either
i and many 1st nation people believe in christ as a historical figure just not the son of the creator

Blimey. Going by that list, being a JW sounds bloody miserable.

Her brother was in a car accident, and the doctors said he would probably need a blood transfusion. Parents refused. Doctors did everything they could, and saved him without doing the blood transfusion. Thankfully.

Parents aren't usually allowed to refuse emergency life saving blood transfusions for their children. The boy would have to have been competent to majd his own decision regarding blood.

In an emergency situation it would just be given, we have to act in the best interest of the child.

But can you, if the parents are there absolutely forbidding it? Or indeed if a Gillick competent child is refusing to agree?

If the parents have refused all blood and products, and are clear in their understanding of what such a refusal may result in (ie the death of the child) then no, we are not allowed to give blood or blood products. We can do the best we can to keep the child alive while someone gets an emergency court order to make them a ward of court so that blood can be given but this is huge. The child is then ostracised from the community and there are massive repercussions. But - they have a chance of being alive.

This is not true. A parent cannot refuse emergency treatment - including a blood transfusion - for a child. We just give the blood if it is needed. If there is time in a non emergency situation, we would go to court if necessary, but in an emergency we just give the blood and are protected in doing this under common law. We tell parents this very clearly.

Also - Gillick competence only complies to consent TO treatment, not to REFUSE treatment.

Fortunately, although we see children of JW families not infrequently, it is not at all common that we need to give blood transfusions and override wishes, but we are always prepared to do so in the best interests of the child.

That list is not true.

A lot is but a lot isnt.

They can use blood for pet food - they can be friends with non jws women don't have to wear a head covering to pray in front of a man, plenty have two door cars.. there are more

A huge tragedy when a life is lost unnecessarily.

Jehovah’s Witnesses in the emergency department: what are their rights?

I'd never heard of this group untli this week. www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/13/followers-of-christ-idaho-religious-sect-child-mortality-refusing-medical-help

I'm a Christian and it makes me ashamed that any religion would deny safe medical treatment to a child or adult.

MissionItsPossible "I often wish I was religious. Just so I could pray to a God and talk to him and I have flirted with the idea but never done so. But the more I think about this and thinking if I had a newborn baby in hospital fighting for its life and the doctors said that they would need a blood transfusion to stay alive and my religion disallowed it, would I stand in front of my newborn baby and disallow them that chance and watch them die in front of me? To put it bluntly, because that's what would happen? Just shocking to me and I can't understand"

Not all religions believe this, in fact most do not. Many religious people and religious organisations have built hospitals and trained doctors. There are many evil things done by religious people but many evil things done by non-religious people.

If you want to pray, just do it, ask God, if he is out there to speak to you in some way, to start to communicate with you and make himself known.

I'm a sucker for the Church of England, we tend to be called wishy washy but actually we are quite diverse, taking in all kinds of people but also working outside the church to welcome others in different ways. Do not be put off by the crackpots!

HicDraconis are you a doctor? Agree with elpinguino parents cannot refuse life saving treatment on behalf of a child.

Jehovas witness is not a religion or a faith it's a VERY POWERFUL CULT.

The watchtower organisation has a whole,division set up to try to disclaim this and to answer media questions etc on the issue of blood transfusion.

Within the Christian churches there are whole ministries attributed to counselling/de programming people badly damaged by this.

I could go on for ever, and list hundreds of evidence to support this.

These poor people have been sold a lie, I dread to think how many lives have been lost due to their false teachings.

Ceto: "Or indeed if a Gillick competent child is refusing to agree?"

Ian McEwan's book The Children Act deals with a situation in which a 17-year old boy is refusing to have a blood transfusion because he's a JW, as are his parents. In his case, it's not an emergency but it has to go to court and be decided by a judge, who rules that the doctors can give the transfusion. It's all down to the interpretation of The Children Act, which basically says that you have to do what's in the best interests of the child, rather than what the parents want. And a 17-year old boy is still technically a child.

The prohibition seems to be based on a verse in Leviticus that reads: "If anyone of the house of Israel or of the aliens who reside among them eats any blood, I will set my face against that person who eats blood, and will cut that person off from the people."

I once worked in a Liver Unit in a Specislist Children's hospital and within their HDU section was a very sick 4 month old baby who was in need of a liver transplant or she would die.

Her parents were Jehovas Witness and said they would not consent to the procedure being done. I will admit I was inwardly quite judgemental.....how could they look at their dying baby and just allow her to suffer and pass away because of their own beliefs? I honestly just couldn't understand it.

It obviously went to Court, the parents wishes were overrided and the baby ultimately got her transplant.

I could see relief in the parents eyes when that decision was made though, I think they were glad the choice had been taken out of their hands and that their baby would be saved but not as a result of them going against their own beliefs.

So glad I dropped my religion. Still a god botherer of sorts but religion stifles and limits everything it purports to provide: love.
It's great to step out of religion, away from guilt and head fucks.

I am completely atheist and find the whole notion of god, angels, heaven, hell etc quite ridiculous. However, I also believe passionately in personal freedom, including an individual's right to their religious believes. As long as they don't feel compelled to force their views on me or others, cause no harm to me or others, I am happy to leave them alone and not judge them. I don't think a parent should be allowed the right to deny their child access to medical intervention due to their religious beliefs though. If a parent is prepared to let their child die rather than accept medical treatment I would have the children taken into care.

Writerwannabe83. I agree it's very hard to understand. All religions require people to hold irrational beliefs, and quite often we're exhorted to admire this ("She has such strong faith" and so on), but most of the time, in the 21st century, people take a fairly pragmatic view of anything that might be detrimental to their personal wellbeing, with many Catholics ignoring the prohibition on contraception, for example. JWs are unusual in having a core belief that requires them to refuse life-saving treatment - and that followers are expected to adhere to unequivocally.

I suppose this is what makes JW a cult - whereas most religions (Judaism, Catholicism, Anglicanism, Islam) now have an orthodox wing and a reform or liberal wing, everyone who is a JW has to follow the basic tenets very closely.

My pil are Jw. They came to our church wedding. They celebrate mothers and Father's Day. Heck, they even ask the kids what Santa is bringing them this year, even tho they obviously don't celebrate Christmas.

Anything that demands blind adherence is asking for trouble.