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AIBU to think the country needs some consensus politics on Brexit?

41 replies

MakingMerry · 13/06/2017 20:46

… Or do you want Brexit only to be negotiated by your preferred party?

So, the clock is ticking on Art 50. It looks as though Theresa May will enter into an arrangement with the DUP and (implications for the peace process aside) will be left with a slender majority of 13. Both main parties have pledged to deliver Brexit, but without an overall majority the Conservative’s manifesto lacks a mandate and what Brexit might look like is, once again, wide open.

Is now the time for politicians to consider putting forward a cross-party group to negotiate Brexit, so that decisions are not held up in Parliament by the necessity to secure every possible vote, and to give the Brexit agreement greater legitimacy and public buy in? Neither the hard right, nor the hard left, are likely to want a consensus approach, but most voters aren’t hard right or hard left.

AIBU to think this could work, and would be sensible given the very tight Brexit deadline, and the importance of the agreement to the country as a whole? Or am I living in lala land because consensus politics do not work in the UK, as the fate of the LibDems shows?

OP posts:
abilockhart · 13/06/2017 23:02

We need consensus on everything.

When the Tories seek support from a terrorist-backed organisation, it's a sign that we are in a very bad place indeed and that complete crackpots are in control.

BrexitSucks · 13/06/2017 23:04

One thing I realise belatedly (following Trump's travails!) is that the US constitution is written in such a way that it makes it difficult for the federal govt. to get anything done. And certainly hasty badly written legislation will struggle to get thru. The founding fathers planned this very deliberately.

They also banned political parties, originally. Ha!

Cuppaoftea · 14/06/2017 07:54

Rufus The terms Soft and Hard Brexit only became widely used by some MPs and the media after the Referendum.

Now you have Remainers saying ok they accept Brexit but lets go for a cross party consensus and aim to stay in the single market.

Except that means keeping the four freedoms of movement of goods, services capital and people. Meaning if we stay in the single market we have to accept continued unlimited immigration from EU countries and continue paying in to the EU budget. We would also stay in the European Court of Justice.

In other words not really Brexit and both the Conservatives and Labour recognise it wouldn't be democratic to pursue this option after the Referendum result. Leave won due to concerns about these very things and because the EU had made it clear prior to the vote Britain could not obtain a special deal on ending Freedom of Movement. We also couldn't for example legislate not to pay tax credits or benefits to EU citizens coming in until they'd paid in to our tax system for a number of years.

Hold a Referendum on staying in the single market and what that would mean for uncapped immigration would have to be made clear. You'd get the same Leave result.

The government have a clear Brexit policy including leaving the single market, Labour's manifesto was clear on this and McDonnell and Corbyn confirmed this post Election. Yet some Labour MPs campaigned on staying in while others campaigned on no backslide on Brexit so it's all a mess from Labour's point of view.

But the government do have a democratic mandate to press forward with Brexit negotiations post Referendum, Article 50 has been triggered and it's time to get on with it. Continued stalling doesn't benefit anyone.

Tanith · 14/06/2017 08:22

" We're leaving - let's pull together and make the best of it as it's in all our interests."

Why the hell should we settle for making the best of it?? The only people who will get the best out of it are the bankers and financiers who thrive on this kind of uncertainty.

I've got a better idea.

Let's acknowledge that the whole sorry mess was caused by a party political squabble that got out of hand.

Let's admit that the whole campaign was based on lies and misdirection.

Let's honour the fact that the referendum was advisory and not legally binding.

Let's look into those accusations of unfair practice, fraud and foreign interference during the referendum itself.

Let's admit we're nowhere near ready, that a whole year has been wasted on procrastination and incompetence.

Let's listen to the experts telling us we are seriously screwing the country with this farce.

Let's abandon Brexit altogether!

GhoulWithADragonTattoo · 14/06/2017 08:32

I think there would be a revolution if Brexit was abandoned altogether. At this stage anyway might be different when we know what looks like. I think OP is right and we should have cross party concensus though to get the best deal for the whole country not just those represnted by one party. This is a national emergency and all politicians should come together to resolve it. People are likely to accept the deal too if all parties have input into the settlement.

Floisme · 14/06/2017 11:51

I'm inclined to agree with the op but at the same time, I'm
very suspicious of the conciliatory noises suddenly coming from the government. It sounds to me like they know it's going to be a fuck up and they want someone else to blame. The same reason why nobody's rushing to challenge for party leadership.

makeourfuture · 14/06/2017 13:06

France and Germany have offered to just forget about all this madness.

The80sweregreat · 14/06/2017 14:50

Make, trouble is now , since the vote was binary, there could be all kinds of problems with letting it just go on the back burner.
the country is split, Ukip will rise again and i cannot see any end to it.
The Daily Mail comments are enough to know that there could be a civil war if they dont get the deal they want ( i like to see what the enemy is up to online..)
Another referendum might be a way around it, if they word it differently this time and we get the truth from both sides, it might swing it, otherwise i think this will be as the Scottish question over independence, that has rumbled on for decades, even if that is off the table for the forseeable future.

Tanith · 14/06/2017 15:22

"I think there would be a revolution if Brexit was abandoned altogether."

I think most people are heartily sick of the whole ridiculous mess and have other things on their minds. They don't really care one way or another if we stay or leave.

They do care about their day-to-day lives being affected and that's begun to happen. That's why the indecent haste to rush it all through.

Cuppaoftea · 14/06/2017 16:29

France and Germany have offered to forget about all this madness.

Yes and Verhofstadt indicating we'd need to cede even more powers in order to stay.

And therein lies the problem. The very ideology and aim of the EU is for further gradual integration until we become a state of the EU centrally governed from Brussels. There never has been majority support for this from the British electorate and the current mess goes in part back to New Labour and Tony Blair signing to further integrate us by stealth knowing full well he didn't have an electoral mandate for what he was doing. And now gives excuses including he didn't realise how many Eastern Europeans would come to the UK and put services under so much pressure. Yeah right.

We are a democracy and the Leave result of the referendum needs to be upheld. The recent General Election isn't an indicator of a majority change in mood on Brexit. Many Leave voters thought Brexit a done deal so voted on other manifesto promises. Labour did after all state in their manifesto we are leaving the single market.

I would predict a big swing to the Tories and back to UKIP if there is a government backtrack on Brexit now.

Peregrina · 14/06/2017 16:30

so tory's should crack on with Brexit.
Why aren't they doing so then? They have just wasted the last 8 weeks.

TheNumberfaker · 14/06/2017 16:42

I don't think there would be any problem with cancelling Brexit. We have made no progress on deciding what we actually want because what's available is shit. What is the point in being able to agree trade deals yourself if no one wants to do business with you?
The referendum result was so close and the campaigns were woefully inadequate or blatant lies, calling it democracy is a joke.

You're not going to get consensus when the country is still so divided. Hurtling off the Brexit cliff is not going to unite us!

makeourfuture · 14/06/2017 17:00

Well a clear, transparent plan would help.

Davis just keeps talking about heading over the cliff.

twofingerstoEverything · 14/06/2017 17:05

The Daily Mail comments are enough to know that there could be a civil war if they dont get the deal they want ( i like to see what the enemy is up to online..)
Civil war, my arse. People talk all kinds of shit on the internet without having a single clue in real life. It's easy to be an internet warrior, like these people. Quite another to get off your arse and start a civil war.
And let's not forget, below-the-line comments and forums - including MN - are full of posters who are paid to agitate/spout propaganda like these guys.

twofingerstoEverything · 14/06/2017 17:06

I'm very suspicious of the conciliatory noises suddenly coming from the government. It sounds to me like they know it's going to be a fuck up and they want someone else to blame. The same reason why nobody's rushing to challenge for party leadership.
Me, too, floisme. The Tories need to own this mess.

The80sweregreat · 14/06/2017 17:14

Twofinger, ok, maybe civil war wouldnt happen, but there might be riots, the rise of the BNP, more racist attacks etc.
best thing for them to do is to get a plan actually in place and then let people vote on the deals on offer. If its written down what will be lost and no sign of buses with untrue slogans , a proper debate and maybe some guidelines around immigration, then maybe people will think twice. A big If - i cant see politicians going for this, but you never know. In the real world they will just fudge it probably.

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