To not get the hysteria over the DUP?

[dingit]

Cropping up on Facebook statuses today, photos with rainbows to stand against them.
I admit until last week I knew nothing about them. A quick look at their website does not show them to be homophobic, racist etc. And surely Teresa May has bigger worries than LGBT rights? They have 10 seats!
I'm not posting to be goady, I genuinely don't get it?

Oh absolutely both parties stand to benefit.
I thought Dobbs statement yesterday was interesting.

The 'expensive millstone' was trying to capture how the UK sees it, rather than a reflection on the people Sunny

It's frustrating that the solution obviously proposed is to cut NI loose and hope Ireland takes it in.

If it makes you feel any better, that's not legally possible under the terms of the GFA. NI stays under the Union and will do so until the people will it to become part of ROI. We're not at that point yet.

While I don't think the UK exactly relishes NI, they know they have an obligation to it and will honour that obligation under the terms of the GFA.

And actually, I think NI nationalists have a big shock coming if we ever did get to the point of seriously considering a United Ireland. They don't have much culturally in common with the Republic any more (imo) and they'll be hurt when it becomes clear that ROI don't really want them.

It's still something I find really offensive Laurie. It's taking people's lives and monetising them.

Laurie I can't honestly tell whether you're trying to be goady or not but it's nice to see the regard you hold for people's lives

Nobody wants us. Nobody understands us.
Well that's us told then. Are we even human?

Sunny: "I have explained."

Yes, sorry, I missed your earlier post. I can see the NHS would be quite a big thing. I don't know much (anything) about the Irish healthcare system. I wouldn't be keen on the Catholic schools (though then again, I wouldn't be keen on Protestant ones either...)

Not sure the things that Sycamore mentions about the legal system and the currency would be insurmountable problems - difficult yes, but not insurmountable.

I tend to think that the ROI is becoming much more progressive than it used to be but that takes time. But I take your general point.

I actually wasn't thinking about the troubles with that phrase. I was thinking of the economics of being responsible for a country that requires a lot of tax revenue to keep it going (in peace time, I'm not talking about troubles or security) that provides very little revenue of its own.

Northern Ireland jobs are highly skewed towards public sector. Much higher than the rest of the country and most of the rest of the world. There's very little home grown tax revenue coming from it. And it's getting all the benefits of UK public services. I'm not saying it should be any other way, but however you look at it it's an expensive place to have on your books.

So it was a point about economics, I'm sorry if that wasn't clear, I didn't mean to cause offence.

I've only read the first 100 posts and your ignorance in relation to this political party is outstanding! That and apologising to people in Northern Ireland in case you've offended them. I daresay that you've possibly offended more than just people in Northern Ireland with your lack of knowledge on the politics of Northern Ireland.

"There's very little home grown tax revenue coming from it. And it's getting all the benefits of UK public services. I'm not saying it should be any other way, but however you look at it it's an expensive place to have on your books. "

You could say that about a lot of parts of the UK.
I'm guessing you don't propose to cut them adrift.
I'm an Irish descent Catholic in England, btw.

True Fickle. I'm not saying UK should cut NI adrift. I'm saying the UK finds NI expensive.

And before I'm pulled up on it, the UK did create the mess in the first place so they have an obligation to support NI.

NI is the UK. As is Cornwall, Wales etc.
Lots of places have social deprivation and don't generate masses for the economy. But everyone there pays U.K. tax in some form or other.

Okay, GB then

U.K. Is GB and NI. It says so on your passport.
If Londoners started whining about how expensive Oldham is to them ( for example- apologies to Oldham), most reasonable people would be up in arms.
I understand, I think, you are trying to say that NI is an expensive matter to sort. Yes it is. But. As messy as it is now, it is cheaper than the loss of life through terrorism that we had for decades.

Do you know I typed a long reply to you Laurie but deleted it.
Stop othering people from Northern Ireland about sums it up.

Look, I'm bowing out now. My posts were meant to challenge, but not
to offend, however I've clearly been away from NI too long and have not presented my points with sufficient sensitivity.

I stand by the following.

Both the DUP and SF are terrorist affiliated parties and there are other options available to assert your stance on the union. I understand the point about tactical voting, but it saddens me that people don't explore other options rather than support these parties. Nobody has to agree with this, I'm just stating my position.

The UK is committed to supporting NI under the terms of the GF agreement and the union will stand so long as that's the will of the NI people. I have no doubt that it will honour that obligation, but I suspect in its heart of hearts it doesn't relish having to do it (again, this is my opinion). NI is a difficult state to run for many reasons. However, colonial Britain played a huge role in creating it and the people have suffered as a result, so it has an obligation and it is rightly honouring that.

I don't think ROI particularly want to have a bigger role in NI than they do presently, however we won't know unless we ever get to a position where the people of NI say they want a United Ireland.

For the record, I'm a NI Catholic, married to a Southern Irish Protestant who has lived in Edinburgh, London and Dublin. My family and friends still live in a border area of NI.

I'm presenting (in a fairly dispassionate way) how I believe Northern Ireland is seen from the outside. I understand that those who've lived there, been through it all, suffered during the troubles might not see it in the same way or find my view difficult. I've tried to keep it factual - and I've highlighted what is more opinion driven in the points I made above.

No offence but the aspect of the GFA that requires those of us in the Republic to also agree to a united Ireland is often overlooked, some old fellas might still sing about it when they're pissed but no one want the North when they're sober.

The expense is a big part of that but the cultural differences seem insurmountable to most.

laurie it's good to see you stand by your initial opinions despite the plethora of information that's been available on this thread to explain why the reality of the situation makes it impossible for middle ground politics to take route. It's also nice to see how NI is judged by you. You are correct in that you haven't been sensitive, but it's always good to inspire debate.

hackmum I think moving from a sterling economy to the euro has the potential to cripple people on a base financial level, just consider exchange rates. They also have an entirely different legal system and education system, so that leaves those who are trained to work in NI with no opportunity for gainful employment, not to mention difficulties in accessing justice. But yea, probably not insurmountable problems for those who wouldn't face them

Maud I couldn't agree more

Well tI be fair the cultural differences between the south and the north have probably become more apparent in boom times, you know when the south forgot all about their identity.
How you like them apples

If our identity was ever rooted in just hating our neighbours, I'm delighted we've forgotten it. Both of my grandfathers are buried in the Republican plot of Glasneven having fought in The Uprising and later the Civil War. I'm as proud and Irishwoman as the proud British woman up thread. We're not too far from a previous garrison town and have loads of lovely Anglican and Methodist neighbours, who are only marked out by our expectations that they are better at baking cakes than their Catholic neighbours. I don't mind at all that, as a tax payer, I pay towards their kids's boarding schools, if they fancy having them educated in their own faith.

However, I have no desire at all to force my nationality or my culture onto a group who don't understand or want it anymore than my grandfathers were willing to accept it from another state.

My identity is not rooted in hating my neighbours I can assure you. The rest of your post meh.

My identity has nothing to do with hating my neighbours.

Quite. You put me in mind of that quote from Vicount Clifton about the orange bitters not mixing well with Irish whiskey.

(For anyone not familiar with the quote, Vicount Clifton was the Liberal MP who suggested the partition of the Ireland of Ireland and that was the reason he gave.)

My identity has nothing to do with hating my neighbours.

I didn't suggest it was, I was replying to Maud's post about the Irish having forgotton our identity.

You see silently my post was tongue in cheek, good old northern sense of humour I suppose. We laugh about ourselves up here. Your remarks are quite telling though.
I've no idea who Vicount Clifton is but he sounds racist.