PhD advice

[Singyourheartout]

Posting on here for traffic.
Interested in doing a PhD in English literature, can anyone tell me about their experiences and cost and time during it? How you prepared? Did you work, how much savings did you need. I believe I might be able to do a study ship with the university I attend and get funding from the government which would be 25000 for three years to cover tuition and such. Does anyone know anything about this?
I will be working during my PhD but I'm looking for what hours people could cope with.
Thanks

Good luck OP whatever you decide!

I'm in the middle of a science PhD, funded (fees + decent stipend) by a research council. A PhD should be like a job - if it is a viable and interesting topic there will be funding bodies (like the ARC etc) interested in paying you to study it. If no one is paying you to study it, then for godsakes don't do it! (Well, unless you're rich, then do whatever you'd like).
Job prospects for PhDs are decent, but only if you can show transferable skills. I wouldn't take on debt for a passion project.
And yes, definitely apply widely to find funding, and look for various smaller funding bodies that might provide part-funding / funding for conferences / fund an archive visit or a period of study etc.

I just finished my PhD a few months ago, and I will say what others have: try to get a studentship if you can. I was paid for 3 years, and was able to focus on it full time...I would have had a really hard time working, being with 2 small Dcs and trying to do PhD work. My bursary wasn't massive, but it was enough to cover travel and a little bit of after school childcare...i was able to work 9-6 every day, with maybe a few hours at the weekends. It still took me almost 5 years to complete (but we had a huge move in the middle of my write up year, so I had an unofficial 6 months off). It may take longer than you expect, so it's best to prepare yourself for 4 years (and that YOU may only be paid for 3).
Also, really think about why you want to do it...I am lucky, I did mine purely out of interest, and though it was really bloody hard work, I'd do it again. But, my other qualifications will secure me a decent career path...I didn't need my PhD to do that. Academic jobs are so few and far between and so competitive, many of my friends in the same cohort really struggled, and are still struggling for academic posts, even with all their publications, work at the uni during their PhDs, and regardless of their specialist knowledge.
It was honestly the most challenging, but rewarding 5 years of life, and the sense of accomplishment is huge, so I'd definitely say go for it...just be prepared, and absolutely try to get funding.

I spent the better part of my 20s in graduate school in the US. I don't regret a minute of it, and it was difficult. But now, 20 years later, I feel like I accomplished one of my major life goals. The big drawback is the debt, which also is still with me.

I don't work in my field, which is my choicebut the very limp job market didn't help to tempt me to stay. I did for a short while, but it was far too much work for too little pay. I use the soft skills and knowledge from the Masters and PhD study in my work todayfreelance work as a content editor and now a specialised craft manufacturer and business owner. Good luck, whatever you do!

While in graduate school, I had a light teaching load during coursework, which was manageable. During the writing stages, though, I didn't work. I needed to devote all of my energy to researching and writing. I lived on a modest stipend and with my parents, which helped a lot.

Not to be the bucket of cold water, but you've said you don't want to work in academia - what other career paths are you envisaging where a PhD in English would be a bonus?

The blunt fact is that academia is generally the only field where a PhD is of the slightest interest to employers. Outside of academia it is generally a disadvantage. Either you leave it on your CV and look 'overqualified', not to mention a bit old and inexperienced for entry level jobs, or you leave it off and have to explain what you were doing for 3-4 years.

Just think very carefully, is all I'm saying. Don't do a PhD because you're comfortable in the uni environment and afraid to put yourself out there in the employment world. The Internet is full of information and personal stories about the millstone around your neck a PhD can be, and the miserable career prospects for PhDs in the arts.

The blunt fact is that academia is generally the only field where a PhD is of the slightest interest to employers.

This is not the case in my field which is in the sciences.

I wouldn't be quite as bleak about it as Undersecretary; while, as I said, the majority of my PhD cohort aren't still in academia, they have all found good and interesting jobs (though it did take a couple of years, in some cases). Also, again, it depends on whether you see the PhD as a valuable time in and of itself. For instance, I know a couple of people who after the PhD went into secondary school teaching (at posh schools - they tend to be much more likely to see it as a bonus to have a 'Dr' on staff). Obviously they could have done that without the PhD, but I think they'd both say they're glad they did it. Similarly I know a couple of people who went into management consultancy (one humanities, one science) and although they certainly didn't need the PhD, or even much benefit from it, to do that, I don't think they regret it. But - and again we come back to the funding issue - I think they feel like that because they were fully-funded and so while the PhD hasn't made them big bucks, nor has it cost them anything. If they were still paying the debt back years later the calculation about whether the PhD was worthwhile for them would look very different.

Just think very carefully, is all I'm saying. Don't do a PhD because you're comfortable in the uni environment and afraid to put yourself out there in the employment world.

I do think this is great advice, though - and, if I'm 100% honest with myself, I think I made this mistake a bit. I don't regret how things turned out, but I don't think I gave enough thought to my other options. I'd also say this particularly about staying at your current institution: if it's really the best choice for your field then fine, but if it's just comfy don't go with it. Especially if you're not intending to stay in academia, then I think the prestige of the institution does matter, sadly: employers are likely to have an impression of the overall reputation of the university, and won't know that it's a generally low-ranked institution BUT good for your sub-field. I'd also think carefully about things like how many PhD students in your subject the university has, etc. - it's a really different experience being part of a big postgrad community and being one of just a small handful, and it does impact on the opportunities available to you.

erinaceous, yes I realised afterwards that I forgot to say in my post that I meant arts PhDs generally. I know there are a number of career paths in the sciences where a PhD can be an asset, and that someone would be along to mention that soon.

Personally I'm in favour of people doing a few years working in the normal world before they commit to a PhD, unless they really feel academia is their calling. But then I turned away from doing a PhD despite being encouraged because I knew full well that I didn't have the temperament and didn't want the career. But I have seen a number of people stay in academia because it's their comfort zone, and be spat out the far side depressed, with poor prospects, and up to their eyeballs in debt. It's not a route I'd encourage anyone to go down lightly, and IMO lecturers are all too keen to encourage people to go there without giving them the balanced view.

I work in a non-academic role in a top University. Many colleagues working on the same or lower grades have PhD's. I have a Masters degree.

If you enjoy it, fine, but it's not a gateway to an academic career, esp in the Humanities, and academic life is often difficult with a family, if that's what you want. You won't get the money back in return over your career that you lose from not working during your PhD.

I agree that wanting to staying where you are because it's familiar isn't really a good sign. Careers in academia often require moves well beyond your comfort zone. If you are desperate for a PhD and you're young and footloose enough, then looking abroad can be a good option: it's often a fucklot cheaper and job prospects can be better. TBH there are so many other options for learning these days, MOOCs and the like, that unless you're really driven I would think twice. And if you don't want it for a career, it can be on the back burner as a retirement project when you'll have time and money to do it without all the stress

The blunt fact is that academia is generally the only field where a PhD is of the slightest interest to employers. Outside of academia it is generally a disadvantage.

I'm pretty negative about the benefits of doing an arts PhD, but even I'd have to dispute this.

I work in a completely unrelated field and my English PhD has always piqued the interest of potential employers and lifted my C.V. out of the crowd. In that sense, it's been an advantage.

However, you're still starting from the beginning. I started as a 'grad', nothing more than that. And for career progression, 4 years experience is much more valuable than 4 years spent doing a PhD.

But it certainly hasn't been a disadvantage. My employers have always liked the idea of a Dr on the staff and encourage me to use the title.

However, I'd caution against doing it just because you're not quite sure what to go into and you think it'll be a nice experience. It's at best highly challenging and at worst soul destroying.

I'm on your other thread, OP, but just to counter the doom and gloom - I mostly enjoyed doing my PhD. It is possible. I really enjoyed what I was working on and I liked writing about it. I had rough moments but TBH I don't think they had a great deal to do with the PhD itself, more to do with what was going on in the rest of my life, which was a bit rocky.

Going into it presuming it'll be a soul-destroying hell seems ... unnecessary.

I defiantly understand that it might appear to be trying to get a few more year of staying out of real life. But I was looking at doing some sort of voulenter work in the industry. I want to work in the academic/ research/intelligence gathering/ /government work. I honestly don't know what at the minute. Can I ask what all those with PhD do now?
I have the aptitude for the PhD which I worked hard to establish that and just think it would be furfulling for me. But seriously going to see if doing the PhD is realistic.

I did a PhD and now I'm an academic. I loved it and love my job, but I'm not in the UK :-)

I did a PhD and now I'm an academic. I loved it and love my job, but I'm not in the UK :-)

Me too. Like other posters I tell my students never to go to grad school unless it is funded, even if it means going to their second choice school. I also tell my students that for the most part, a masters degree is better than a PhD in the "real" world (I'm in a practical, working with people, part of the sciences) because it shows that you can do advanced study, integrate complex concepts, but that a Ph.D is so specialized and narrow that you often qualify yourself out of more jobs than you qualify yourself for. In 9 years I've had only a handful of students that I've recommended go on to PhD simply because they would be bored if they weren't in that challenging environment and they are well suited for academia. But I've been honest with them about the pitfalls. Take a long, hard look at the jobs you want to do. Do your job search now so you have an idea of what's out there and what the required (vs preferred) qualifications are. Do they require a Ph.D?

One thing I always emphasize too is that if you want to work in academia/research you have very little control over where you live. For the most part you end up going where the job is and that often means a trailing spouse who may have few opportunities. In a big enough country you can rule out certain areas. I'm living somewhere that was never on my list of places I wanted to live, and also wasn't on my list of places I ruled out. It's ok, but there are many other places I'd love to be living but can't because I don't have the flexibility to just move and find a job there doing what I do.

Can I ask what all those with PhD do now?

If you start a thread asking "MNers with a PhD - what do you do now?" you will likely get more responses. There are quite a few PhDs on MN. (There I go, doing your research for you.)

You write that you have the aptitude for a PhD. Many people do. Having the aptitude for a PhD does not strike me as a particularly useful filter when it comes to deciding to do one. It is a necessary criterion but not a sufficient one if you see what I mean.

I work in scientific research in industry, in what is essentially the parallel track to an academic career in my field.

I work in branding and marketing. It's interesting, well paid but pretty full on. The PhD is a point of interest on my C.V. but in no sense a requirement for the industry.

OP, this is not to discourage you, just to tell you what's involved.

Doing a PhD is tough, much harder than a master's degree. I did a full-time PhD (hard science, not Eng lit, but I have no reason to think that life in the humanities is easier). For 4 years it took everything I had, intellectually and emotionally. And then I had to change continents, twice, for my career. That experience is typical.

The upside? An exhilarating life in science.

Like TheFeministDragon, I did not find my PhD (not English but similar subject) a terrible experience. In fact, writing my thesis may well have been the most fun I've ever had. I was surrounded by people who were into the same kind of thing, we spurred each other on, I was fascinated by my subject and managed to come up with some rather good questions.

Am now an academic, unfortunately on part-time and on junior contract, but still loving it.

Can I ask what all those with PhD do now?

Like a good number in the humanities, alternate between periods of unemployment and clinging to precarious, short-term, badly paid jobs and devoting a good portion of my time to searching for largely non-existent vacancies and wonder a) Why did I bother? & b) How much longer can I keep going.

I really enjoyed doing my STEM PhD, I did do it full time and was funded, plus I didn't do it in the UK, so perhaps that makes a difference.

I don't work in academia now, and my PhD has definitely opened doors. My area is very niche though, and some of my background and experience are unusual.
Something which might help is if you can use your skills/background/experience to carve out a niche for yourself, and to set yourself apart or fit into a category not many other people with the same PhD would, then you dramatically raise your career prospects.

For example, my current job requires whoever does it to be fluently trilingual, with one of those languages being not especially common. It also involves living somewhere not very hospitable (climate-wise) which would put a lot of people off the job. Fortunately for me I love this particular brand of inhospitable

Things like that, are you prepared to work somewhere other people would shy away from? Take on roles which give great experience but which wouldn't be a popular choice for most job hunters? Those sort of paths can help.

Apollo for any typos, wine + tiredness isn't a good typing combination!

I should add that one major reason my academic career hasn't taken off is that I have been a long term carer for my disabled daughter; also that I arrived as an immigrant in this country with no contacts and too much diffidence. And didn't have the brains to understand about networking. If you want to make an academic career work you need:

to write a very good PhD (requiring a mixture of talent, hard slog and sheer luck)

to be prepared to work hard on networking and making contacts, online, at conferences, in the faculty, outside the faculty

to be prepared to work hard on teaching skills since nearly all junior academic job involve lots of teaching

to be prepared for some very lean years immediately after graduating- which is precisely when you will be feeling weak and burned out and in need of cossetting

to have a specialism that is actually wanted (the only reason I've done ok despite my obvious career managing flaws is the nature of my niche)

to have a skin like a rhinoceros whilst going through the job application process

to be prepared to project just the right amount of confidence (but not come across as an arrogant prat)

I have had students who have done very well, in the heritage industry, publishing etc, or who have found their degree useful to walk sideways into Sixth Form teaching.