To not read DD four stories tonight

[RosaLuxembourg]

Ever since DD3 started school in January (she is 4.8 now) her behaviour has been very difficult (lots of tantrums and she has been quite clingy to me. At bedtime tonight DH told her he was reading her stories and I was reading to DD2. She got hysterical - so I offered as a compromise that DH would read her two stories and then I would come and read her two. All the time I was reading to DD2 I could her her screaming hysterically at DH. When I came to read to her she insisted on choosing four books. I said I would only read two as that was what I had promised her but she kept screaming four four four over and over again. She threw the books at me, she hit me and pulled my hair and screamed at the top of her voice for over an hour. I thought she was going to throw up. Finally she screamed herself to sleep. Now I feel like shit. She got no stories and I feel like the worst mother in the world. Was I unreasonable to hold out like that?

no way, well done you for holding out. It is so hard to do. I had an episode like that when I said 'if you don't sit at the table you won't get any cake' he screamed a loud no in my face, so i sat with the rest of the family and ate a slice of cake with ds screaming for cake and coming out in spots with temper. It was really hard to do!
Is there any way you could all sit together for story time?

Just gone in to check on her and she is still making that sort of gasping sound in her sleep that they do when they have really been upset. Feel even worse now. Anyone?

Thanks Duke. If DH isn't home we all sit together for story time but DD2 is 7 and likes chapter books and DD3 still likes mostly picture books so when we are reading DD2's stories DD3 starts playing up and annoying DD2.

We only have time for one, so she has to chose carefully.

That's tricky maybe you could say, we are choosing one story for dd2 and one story for dd2 we are all going to sit together and read dd2's one first and dd3's. Sit nicely through each others stories or you won't get one at all. they will soon get the idea. Maybe she is competing with others for attention at school and doesn't want to compete for it at home?

Hi Rosa, well done for holding out, you did the right thing.

Here, we use good behaviour one night to be rewarded with books the next night. We've got it down to one book each, before brushing teeth, provided they've (2 ds's) been good the night before. Maybe tomorrow afternoon, talk through with your dd what she might get that night in the way of books, but warn her that bad behaviour could have consequences for the following night. I know that this is out of step with the 'bad behaviour now/consequences now' school of thought, but it's really worked for us....

Oh, and top tip from my sister is story tapes after lights out - helps to calm them down and has stopped my ds's bouncing round the bedroom - but I wonder if it would help one of your dd's to listed to a tape while you're reading stories to another???

listed = listen!

JSF - She got a CD player for Christmas in the hope it would calm her down and keep her in bed after lights out but we've had to take it away as she was so rough with it I thought she would break it. Bedtimes are a nightmare tbh, tonight was the worst ever though. The consequences thing doesn't seem to have any effect on her, she doesn't seem to care. Star charts etc have been tried with no effect. She scribbles on her bedroom walls and even on the sheets and pillowcases and is rarely asleep before 9.30 or even 10pm. Then she comes into our bed at about 3am. I am tearing my hair out but tonight was the last straw. I need to figure out what I should be doing to get bedtime straightened out.
Duke, yes I suppose that she is competing for attention at school. She is very quiet and well behaved in class apparently [hmmm].

JSF - She got a CD player for Christmas in the hope it would calm her down and keep her in bed after lights out but we've had to take it away as she was so rough with it I thought she would break it. Bedtimes are a nightmare tbh, tonight was the worst ever though. The consequences thing doesn't seem to have any effect on her, she doesn't seem to care. Star charts etc have been tried with no effect. She scribbles on her bedroom walls and even on the sheets and pillowcases and is rarely asleep before 9.30 or even 10pm. Then she comes into our bed at about 3am. I am tearing my hair out but tonight was the last straw. I need to figure out what I should be doing to get bedtime straightened out.
Duke, yes I suppose that she is competing for attention at school. She is very quiet and well behaved in class apparently [hmmm].

Sorry Rosa, didn't realise you've been through so much bedtime bad behaviour. My ds's can pull the odd 1 hour mayhem after lights are (supposedly) out. But they share a bedroom (and bed, by choice) so we have to bring one of them down to the naughty step if they're showing no signs of settling down.

My dh often says that we just need to have enough, inventive 'punishments' to keep our ds's on track. Latest one is to put their favourite toys in the loft if they are naughty.

I do find that children become sort of immune to the same punishment after time ... if you can't come up with new punishments for bad behaviour, can you think of rewards for good behaviour instead?

JSF: We try to practice positive parenting and I do praise good behaviour, the trouble is there is so little of it at the moment. She seems to delight in being naughty - tearing up things and scribbling on things - yet she is really affectionate and lovely too. I just feel flattened by her energy, her capacity to do stuff seems to have expanded way past my capacity to respond. But I'm very tired now and it is late, I expect it will look better in the morning.

I am sorry to be negative here. But you are the parent (sorry to quote some do-gooding telly person) and what you say should go.

I am not sure if you were in the room at this time.

This is only my opinion, but I had a habit of shutting the door on DS age 3.1 at the time (with a light of course) and tying DH's dressing gown belt from the knob to the bannister so he couldn't open it. I only did it twice and he has calmed down so much.

He can still be a little bugger but nothing like that any more. Even if I say to him I will lock you in your room now, it hasn't frightened him at all.

I think you are perfectly reasonable. she wanted four because you said two, not through any desire for literary self improvement. If you had read foour she probably would have demanded two more. Stay tough Rosa

Thanks for the replies. Up until recently I was using the 'count to five' technique - 'I am going to count to five and if you haven't gone upstairs/put on your pyjamas/got into bed I will give you time out in your room'. I rarely got past two before she rushed off to do whatever she was asked. But in the past few weeks that has all gone out the window and she is wilful and naughty beyond belief. I need a fresh start and a new approach. Any suggestions for books I could read etc welcome. Her two sisters were never this difficult.

Have you tried the super nanny thing where you get two jars, an empty one and one full of nice stuff e.g shiny marbles. You give her a nice thing to put in her special empty jar whenever she does as you ask straight away. Defiance leads to marbles or whatever being taken out of the jar.

RL, my dd started full time school in January too, she's 4.6, and I've seen a change in her behaviour although not to the extent of your dd but that may well be because she's an only child so I can focus on her in a way that it's hard to when there are two who both need attention.

What I've found is that like someone else has said, she's working so hard to be 'good' at school that when she gets home it's almost like she needs to let off steam. She demands attention in a pretty much constant way, every five seconds it's 'mum! look at this' or wails of 'I can't do it' before floods of tears. This isn't like her at all. Literally she won't leave my side or be out of my attention for a minute. If the phone rings she creates such a fuss it's almost funny if it wasn't so infuriating. One of the other mums at school said her little boy is very angry with her about leaving him all day, he actually said that to her, and although dd hasn't said that to me I'm wondering if there isn't some of that going on.

I think some of this transition to being a 'proper' school child is very trying for them and as much as possible if we can keep our patience and try to see it from their point of view we can just about stay on top of it.

I think you were right about sticking with the 2 stories though, you have to stick to your guns. And I really feel for you about the guilt over her screaming herself to sleep. Dd sometimes sobs herself to sleep and it breaks my heart.

Oh yes, the other thing of course is tiredness. Is your dd much more tired now she's at school? I've found that doing the whole bedtime thing much earlier is a big help. That way when things start to go a bit wrong there's enough time to sort them out without bedtime getting ridiculously late. I now aim to have dd totally ready for bed by 6.45pm at the latest then we've got 45 mins for stories and shennanegans and she still manages (mostly) to be off by 7.30pm.

HTH?

Rosa I wanted to echo what imaginaryfriend said about behaviour on starting school; my ds started last sept, and had some real humdingingly awful behaviour at home for that first term. It is such an effort for them, such a change, such a stepchange in the level of independence they have to show....I do think bad behaviour is fairly common; specially when they are coping and managing to be really good in class. Ithink it's major letting off of steam.

You say she's clingy to you (not surprisingly); why not go with it, and YOU read to your dd3 for now. I always think with kids that there is a lot to be said for giving them what they're asking for. NOT giving in and being ordered about, I mean going with what they want because they are telling you what they need; your dd3 is clingy, so let her be with you, it's what she needs at the moment. It's probably only going to be for a matter of weeks anyway, we're not talking years here.

I just think there's no point trying to push water uphill with kids!

I'm with SSU, if you can, indulge her for a while, see if things get better?

Agree with what you say re clinginess SSU and IF and I am trying to make allowances for her but I hadn't read to DD2 for several nights and it is not fair on her either to see me putting DD3 constantly first and her needs always coming second. From the moment she comes out of school she is clinging to my hand and screaming and tantruming if DD2 tries to walk beside us (poor DD2 is ordered by her to walk two steps behind like a Roman slave). She is very patient with her little sister but she may start to resent her if this behaviour goes on too long.

wow, rosa, she is a little character, isn't she

Of course it is a balancing act when you have other children to keep happy as well. But I still think there's scope to offer more of you to your dd for now; if you feel you need to read to your other dd, then dd3 can sit and snuggle WITH you rather than you being just with another child....she can be your little shadow, and it needn't stop you being with the other children. They may enjoy the grown up feeling they get if you explain to them "dd3 is being a bit clingy at the moment, she isn't so grown up as you".....but yes, you can only do so much; if you make this offer, but your dd3 decides to scream and shout, well that's just going to have to happen. She can't have all your sole attention but I still think at 4.8 it's totally reasonable to WANT it, even though it's never going to happen!

Best of luck though, you obviously have your hands full and you sound to me like you deserve the nobel prize for patience!

It went better tonight. DH away (and also DD1 )so I snuggled them both up together and read their stories. Apart from a minor incident with the looroll when she got bored listening to DD2's story, and a complete refusal to let me turn the light off, bedtime was a success and did not involve felt tip pens on walls floors or bedlinen, wholesale destruction of other people's personal property, the flooding of the bathroom while my back was turned for two minutes or any other assorted antisocial behaviour that may or may not have happened in the recent past.
Just as well since there is no alcohol in the house and no way of getting any.

Rosa, she's giving you a real runaround isn't she? She makes my dd's antics look completely light-weight.

I was sad to hear that your dd2 is getting her nose pushed out at the moment and I agree that you really don't want to indulge behaviour in which she's allowed to push her sister away. It's very hard for you. Like I said earlier, easier for me to 'preach' when I've only got to deal with one child.

Was her behaviour always difficult by the way?

IF - she was a very sweet, well-behaved child until she started school in January. I hope to see that child back again one day....
I think I am finding it so difficult because it is new behaviour and I don't have a strategy to deal with it.

My DD aged 6, reads all six of her library every night before she goes to sleep and often sleeps with a comic in her hand (little book worm). Do you think that your DD is trying to postpone the evil moment of bedtime? Maybe she is trying to get your attention after being at school all day. I used a sort of controlled crying technique so I could leave the room for short bursts of time but coming back when I said I would - making it slightly longer each time until she dropped off - to actually stop myself from feeling trapped in the room all night.

RL, I'm sure she'll be back to the little sweetie you know and love. This is all such a big deal for her at the moment. Most people I know tend to say this goes on for the first full-time term and then eases. So I guess we can hope for light at the end of the tunnel after the Easter vacation?

I'm glad you had a better bedtime though.