To think that your vote isn't actually secret?

[hellooooooomama]

Everyone has voted by now so hopefully won't put anyone off.

I watched very carefully while voting today. There is a number next to your name on a list, they write that number on a sheet next to the number of the ballot paper they give you.

How the hell is that a secret vote?!

So revealing someone's vote is illegal, but technically the government could work it out with some (admittedly substantial) cross checking?

The number also helps so that it can be more easily checked for fraud, or if the number of votes counted in a ballot box don't match the number given by the presiding officer for that polling station - when I was counting votes at the last GE, we had to recount one box three times because the numbers didn't match up.

Marmite I wonder if we vote in the same place. The same notice was on display at my polling station

Are postal votes only opened on election day? They could be used to see who voted as you put your name on but this is in the outside envelope though.

There has to be a way to verify how someone voted in the event of an investigation though I've never heard of one being required in the UK. I would guess that if there was a question raised about the validity of a vote they would track down the voter and ask them to affirm who they voted for. The only reason pencils are offered to use as a vote marker is so a voter can correct their mistake if they wanted

www.londonelects.org.uk/im-voter/counting-votes

I think it would be easier to work out who people vote for by looking at their Facebook profile pics than tracing the votes back by the ballot identifier number to the address!

As far as I know, postal votes are opened with the regular ballot boxes - we had to mix the postal votes in with the regular ones before we began counting by candidate.

During this election campaign both myself and my husband received correspondence (personalised) from one of the parties. It was only at the last general election that my hubby voted for that particular party, I myself have been a not particular vocal supporter for a number of years. However hubby has never so much as said a word to anyone much less joined any mailing lists showing him to support that party, however the direct mail showed that they somehow knew that he was a supporter. More than a little bit strange if you ask me.

DH has been talking about this ever since he voted this morning. I keep telling him to stop being ridiculous.

But it seems he has a pint, but that I'll ever admit to it in front of him.

I think we're safe. It does make me chuckle that people think governmental depts are that high tech and efficient!

Lol at the PP's "they'd notice if people counting brought in pencil cases and start rubbing out..." comment!

Not sure about the personalised letters, we had them from parties we didn't vote for last time.

I might just mention though, if you say anything positive or engage with election campaigners on your doorstep, they will mark you down as worth following up with private letters. I must be too polite & interested in listening, as each election I get personalised mail constantly running up to elections from 3 different local party candidates!! 😀 (I appreciate their time though.)

Apologies, this is long and a bit ranty.

I've been a Presiding Officer in a polling station all day. Let me tell you about this.

Yes, technically you could find out how someone has voted. You are assigned a voter number, we then write that on a list where your number is put beside the number of the voting paper you are given. To find out how you voted, someone would have to have access to your ballot paper, the list of matched numbers, and the voter list. The latter two are kept in separate sealed envelope. So, technically, votes could be checked back for fraud purposes I guess, but it would be a long and complex process. No-one would be able to 'sneak a look' ad hoc though.

Secondly, there is just no way that pencil votes can be rubbed out and redone. This is lunacy. Firstly, as PO, I've got my eyes on the sealed ballot box all day. I seal the wee letterbox bit at 10pm. It then gets put, fully sealed, into a van which is following a pre-prescribed collection route round a group of polling stations. Every Presiding Officer on this route knows roughly when to expect the van and if it's late, they generally phone 'up the line' to find out what's going on. Pretty much everyone knows exactly where the van is. Delays are usually down to someone struggling with the extensive paperwork, during which the sealed box is in full view of the waiting driver, the P.O. and Poll Clerk(s). Once all the boxes are picked up, the van races to the count. The drivers try to get there as fast as poss, so as to get the boxes droppped off and go home. We've been working all day by this point so all keen to get home asap. The boxes are then opened in front of lots of people. Where in that process is someone going to get time to both rub out and redo the votes? And don't you think the counters might notice rubbed out x's. You can't even rub it out in the polling station - if you want to change your vote we have to declare your original spoiled and give you a new ballot paper.

Can you tell I'm a bit fed up with people questioning me and my colleagues' integrity??? Last year, some of the vans were followed by people in cars who genuinely believed that the van pulled into a lay by for an hour or two, snipped open the boxes and changed all the votes. It's just not possible!

Yes we've had them for parties we didn't vote for last time. And we weren't in the same constituency in 2015. I think they do it by profiling. Surely from the list they know that you have voted, but not who you voted for, unless they can be bothered to go through the ballot box.

I noticed that too,* Whereis,so I stopped being nice at the doorstep and started telling them what my issues with their party was.
Hope they listen to that,

Piffpaffpoff

As a poll clerk I completely agree. Plus if there was a mass conspiracy to amend the votes do people honestly think it would be done with rubbers and not false boxes? And who would be behind this conspiracy?

Once the copy of the elector list is sealed in one envelope and the corresponding number list is sealed in a separate envelope, it needs a court order for them to be opened and checked. This only happens in the event of an investigation of electoral fraud.

Between my DH and I we've had 13 personally addressed letters from the Tories this time.
I've never voted Tory in my life, I do however live in a Tory marginal seat which is predicted to swing labour tonight.

I have to keep my vote a secret. All my family are UKIP/Tory voters and I aint justifying my vote to anyone.

AnnieOH1

Sorry to burst your bubble, but people are just not as unfathomable and original as we all like to think....All the major parties buy the kind of commercial databases that MORI etc. produce for supermarkets and telemarketers, which predict your consumer choices - it's surprisingly easy to predict someone's voting intention from their demographic (age, income, education) and their area/postcode.

The parties can target their advertising by postcode very accurately, and this isn't because they are doing anything suspicious - they're just buying in data that loads of companies already produce about you to predict what they should market to you. It is in the public domain anyway for the most part and there's a lot of data showing that in postcode X you will tend to read the guardian, holiday at centre parcs, buy mineral water and so on; or in postcode Y the average income is £xyz, the educational level is such and such and the average car is a BMW or whatever.

The big parties also use software that records any time you have told a campaigner what party you intend to vote for, so you might not have told eg. a conservative campaigner this time what you plan to vote, but if you told them in 2010 they'll be sure to have this on record.

That's what doorstep campaigners are doing when they come round to canvass your vote. They aren't trying to persuade you, they are recording what your voting intention is so they know where their local vote lives and who to get out on polling day. It all gets written down and goes into a database that goes back four or five elections. So a party will be able to make a good guess at whether you're a party supporter or a swing voter and which direction you might swing to.

Piff thanks, really interesting.
How long do the officials keep paperwork, is it archived for years and years?

One election my polling station trialled electronic voting. now that was fun,can't remember how it worked but nothing came of it as we are all back to stubby pencils.

Much like the time years ago when we trialled a smart meter, now they are the coming thing, though they took our trial one out after a couple of years.

As we've got a presiding officer and a poll clerk on the thread I just want to add a quick thanks to everyone involved in the gathering and counting of votes. Long and not very sociable hours!

..... chap who was incandescent with rage that his registration number was written on his ballot paper.
I was a Poll Clerk yesterday too, and can confirm Piffpaffpoff's descriptioin and analysis, except that where I was, there was no dramatic high-speed van collection scenario - Presiding Officers drove the ballot boxes, and all the election paperwork and paraphernalia, to a central processing point in their own cars.

However, I can assure the young man in question, and any others who may be concerned, that nothing, absolutely NOTHING, is written on a ballot paper by the Polling Station staff.