To think it is clear where Corbyn will get the money from?

[malificent7]

Taxes of course... especially the rich.
Which is how it should be.

Pretty much everything in the Labour manifesto is having money thrown at it; NHS, Education, police, welfare, minimum wage increase. JC has given us a picture of a Eutopua which is impossible to sustain. Anyone could produce a manifesto making these sort of promises, but you also have to be a realist and surely question how this Land of Honey picture he paints is doable?

Hasta la vista, Theresa!

But then it's patently obvious that many educated people do believe what Labour is doing is right?. So it's ridiculous to dismiss it unless you too are an economist.

Economics isn't an exact science, I haven't denied that many educated people believe labours plans, it was you who framed it as an endorsement. There will be just as many if not more who think that Labours plans are plain awful and support the Tories plans, there are others who will be critical of both (such as the IFS).

Bakewelltarty small business most definitely do pay corporation tax! I run a very small business and we pay corporation tax. Any company that makes a profit pays corporation tax on their profit.

Corby said that 95% of the population won't be affected by tax increases. How is that so when I know my wages will be affected as we will be paying more corporation tax and therefore have less money to pay ourselves? My wages are currently nowhere near the top 5%. In fact they are distinctly average. I'm sure that there are thousands and thousands of small companies like mine whose owners will be in the same position.

Corby said that 95% of the population won't be affected by tax increases. How is that so when I know my wages will be affected as we will be paying more corporation tax and therefore have less money to pay ourselves? My wages are currently nowhere near the top 5%. In fact they are distinctly average. I'm sure that there are thousands and thousands of small companies like mine whose owners will be in the same position.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Corbyn will be increasing your corporation tax from 20% to 21%. Not a huge increase.

Not rtft but hmrc has been hugely under-resourced for years which has meant that they haven't had the means to properly chase the tax evaders/avoiders.

The tories took money from the needy as soon as they got in power. Why take money from those who have the least? It comes from a position of greed and wealth for the already rich. Cuts started happening for the SEN children I work with as soon as they got into power. The very rich haven't suffered; the needy have in very real terms. How can anyone be ok with that? It's not good for the economy it's good for the rich! A good economy should be helping those who need it.

At least Labour's priorities are with the people who need it most, with the plan to use money from people and companies who have the most to spare. And trotting out the line about rich business leaving the country; do these rich businesses care about the needy? Are they there to make money for our economy? Don't think so! They're there to make money for themselves. Same for privatising, it gives others the opportunity to make money for themselves. It's not a model that thinks of the poor and needy.
Wealth creates wealth but at the cost of the poor. Labour want to force them to provide more for the country by paying more tax, makes sense to me! They should be made to be more conscious of the country and world we live in and not allowed to exploit other for their gain.

Seoul - because it assumes people will happily pay it.

If they see results, most will. Some won't.

If they see results, most won't.

So tax takes will drop. As they have done with every party that's put up taxes beyond the comfort threshold of those paying them. Look at France, for an example.

Then labour will panic and raise taxes again. And the take will decrease again.

Etc.

• if they DON'T see results

Bakewell it's not scaremongering it's a fact that under labour taxes will go up for small employers. They will be required to pay higher wages. In rural areas it's small business that provide work and services. This would stilt new businesses from starting. Sustainability does not come from government handouts. It comes from increasing social financial independence.

My husband and I have worked out bollocks off for years and yet not afforded a holiday. I struggle to see how working really hard but can't afford a holiday versus on benefits, and using foodbanks so they can save to pay for flights, hotels etc is in anyway fair, right or acceptable.

Everyone needs a break from the norm but not by using the generosity of foodbanks! The benefits system and charity sector should be used to support those who truly require it.

We pay for full-time childcare with no help. It wipes out 90% of a my wage. So why should I see families watching TV while their DC are in school saying they can't work due to cost of childcare. Of course they can!

My childrens education is another concern. They will be getting less spent on their education under Tory. Under labour they'll be paying off the debt and in 20 years time it's my DC that will be suffering due to my generations overspend. Do I look at the hear and now and their education costs or do I consider their chance of employment and good jobs and their future country. The fact is dh and I can bridge their education gap if the school's begin to suffer. It's an additional expense to bring in tutors but if we need to we would find the money or do it ourselves.

No party has got this right so far. Tory cuts are too hard, labour spending too high. Brexit should and will happen. I voted to remain i think leaving will financially clatter the UK for at least the next 10 years.
I also live in an area where our Tory MP is horrendous. Our labour MP is ok but this isn't about our local government this is about who is going to run the country. Labour is the answer to now because the financial implications won't be felt for years to come. Why would I want to leave that for my children to sort out?!

Voting labour is like being told you might need to re- roof your house so you go and buy two new cars and redecorate inside. Surely you'd wait till your roof was done but plan what and how you'd do the rest once it's finished.

Both parties are too extreme. Corbyns should have stepped down but he chose not to out of principal. What else will he do out of principal?

The least worse option is Tory for now till we get through brexit then by next election hopefully Corbyn will have left or sorted labour out an we will have a better idea of what our future holds.

Corbyns figures don't add up because they don't take reaction into account!

This is on the money. As a pp said, economics is not an exact science. At all.

The classic Tory line? I want a policeman on every corner, but I don't want to pay any tax. The classic Labour line? Tax the rich (where rich = anyone richer than I am). You can increase personal and corporate taxation. You can do so massively. But you then provide a disincentive for people to work, thereby meaning that the jobs that they would have provided don't exist. It's called a multiplier effect. As for the corporates? We live in a globalised world. People may not like this, altbough we've all had th benefit over the past 30 years in terms of cheap consumer goods etc, but it's now a fact of life. And if the UK becomes economically unattractive, then big companies can easily relocate elsewhere. And then there won't be those jobs any more no the tax take is massively reduced.

If you want things put in stark and oversimplistic terms, I think a better way to look at it is this - do we want to reduce the level of inequality in our society more than we want to create wealth for that society? This is a reasonable question to debate and people will have different views on it. But, ultimately, an aggressive policy of redistribution is likely to make us all poorer in absolute terms while meaning we are more equal in relative terms.

Brexit was a bit like that as well, although no one was honest enough to put it in those terms. So is Scottish independence. You can have absolute sovereignty and control of your borders, but that will mean that, as a country, you are poorer. It may mean enough to some that they are prepared to be financially worse off - and that is a legitimate choice. But you have to be wised up enough to realise that that is the choice you are making.

Remember too, that time changes things. Your big risk is always that the young people leave. This is especially risky in a situation like ours where our currency has been devalued (as money earned abroad is now "worth" a lot more). Given pensions are basically a Ponzi scheme (people at the bottom pay for people at the top), you run a huge risk looking forward if you can't attract and keep your talented young people, as ultimately there won't be any money left for anything at all!

I don't get why people keep banging on about the money, if there isn't enough then there won't be enough if the tories stay in either

But perhaps what money there actually is would be much better spent in the right areas under labour

*Labour isn't the answer to now

It was me who said Corbyn doesn't take reaction into account. This is basic bad management! If an employer made changes but didn't look ahead then their business would most likely suffer unless luck was on their side. Brexit is not going to bring good luck. It might not make much difference but it probably will.

Starti the corporation tax will be increased to 26%, which is a substantial rise and will affect my income significantly. The issue I have is with the myth that the Labour policies will only affect the rich. It's not true, it will have a knock on affect to millions of people who are not rich.

He won't get it. We have a mobile society and the rich can just up sticks and leave (as they did in the past). Then the burden will fall on the middle classes which is what always eventually happens...

From taxresearch.org.uk:
"Jeremy Corby has said he will increase corporation tax from its current 19% for all companies to 21% for small companies and 26% for larger companies if Labour wins the election. Let’s leave probabilities aside and discuss the merits of this idea."

"I don't get why people keep banging on about the money, if there isn't enough then there won't be enough if the tories stay in either"

That's true, but not a fair representation, because it suggests that the size of the overspend woukd be similar.

IFS produced analyses of the pledges v expected revenues from the manifestos, and the overspend with the Labour programme is substantially more than any other party.

Is this a good thing for the economy at the time of Brexit (is it better to be more shock-proof or more exposed at a time of uncertainty?)

And would the overspend require additional borrowing (would that be cheaper or more expensive during Brexit?) or more taxes?

The more people earn/ recieve in welfare, the more people spend which is great for the econoy

Errr. Not Quite. A lot of that spending will be on stuff we import, like electrical goods, cars, food, etc., so the money will just go abroad and line the pockets of the manufacturers in other countries.

I don't get why people keep banging on about the money, if there isn't enough then there won't be enough if the tories stay in either

It just isn't as simple as that. At all. Think about growth. Where does that come from? Tax policies and whether we are in the single market makes a huge difference to whether people want to invest in the U.K. That investment creates jobs. The companies pay tax and the workers pay income tax. Those workers will employ, say, cleaners and childcare workers. They will also pay tax. Those workers will spend money that they earn. They will pay VAT on those goods and services etc etc.....

Tories - party of the bankers.

Labour - party of the people.

I do take your point and voting this time has felt like being between a rock and a hard place to be honest

But the poor / and average working classes are being squeezed tighter and tighter and have suffered for years in the name of austerity while the rich carry on as normal . It's time to try a different way

Re people spending the money on products made offshore, some of the Labour propeganda says they pledge to close tax avoidance loopholes. I haven't read the manifesto so im not sure who they're aiming at.

Party of the people.....Tony Blair didnt give flying arse fuck about the people. Come on.

All politicians are self aggrandizing

Agree with rinkydinkypink. Nicely put. I am off to vote conservative at lunch time, not because I think they are great but because they are the best of a bad bunch, for now.