To ask why some people don't vote

[LyraTheDaemon]

I'm naive to the whole thing! I completely understand it's their democratic right to not vote just as it is to vote but I'm baffled as to why you wouldn't.

I work with someone who is overall a nice person but is extremely naive & lives in a bit of a bubble. For context, we work in the NHS & she has 2 children, so imo the policies being discussed by all parties will have an impact on her, but she just doesn't care! We've all mentioned to her how important it is but she says she doesn't know or care enough to go. It also transpired she's not even registered to vote so we all gave up trying to convince her.

Without a slanging match, if you don't vote, why? Why not spoil the ballot instead? Obviously this isn't aimed at people that can't vote, it's for those who can but choose not to.

Well no, I would want to check the figures on that as I was surprised it would be the advised choice for tactical voting. And yes, fair point about the definition of a tactical vote. But perhaps it really is the advised choice for a tactical vote in that area.

I have tactically voted (postal vote). Feel a bit shit about it but feel I had no choice but to vote that way so at least I have tried to get the outcome I think is best.

I'm probably not going to bother, I live in an area which is over 70% Conservative so it just seems pointless and I still have no idea who to vote for anyway!

Husband currently away with friends so won't be voting either.

I've had this conversation over and over with my work colleagues and usually these are the responses:

I don't know who to vote for - well read up about it then?
It's all quite boring... - I have no response to this
All politicians and parties are exactly the same - well no, they actually are not...
All politicians are liars - again, this is a futile argument

Oh and not only do my children's school teach them about politics I also am so dull I send them articles to read and we discuss the news. My DD can vote in the next election and I can't bear the idea of her not caring about anything enough to waste it.
They take a vote in secondary school at every election (even brexit) and discuss policies and why it's important to vote. And I love this school

My mum doesn't vote, as she thinks she'd make the wrong decision and will regret it. My dad doesn't vote as he 'can't be bothered'. I'm all for voting, and I do plenty of research to make sure I'm making the right choice.

What if all these people don't turn up because "my vote for the opposition won't count"? I know it's unlikely but still if everyone turned out to vote I think a lot more places would be a lot more of a competition.

I've seen this argument trotted out on a few occasions on this type of thread and it really does surprise me every time. What good reason is there to suppose that the rest of the constituency aren't going to vote along broadly similar lines? If I live in a very safe labour seat and she has a majority of over 6,000 votes, and there are around 15,000 (I think- can't recall) non-voters, what good reason is there to suspect that the 15k who didn't vote aren't all going to distribute in more or less the same way?

Is there some kind of suppression of Tory voters who just have all been tricked into not voting? Hardly- FPTP makes your vote worthless in a safe seat.

I agree that voting should be compulsory (it is in Australia and they get 98%+ turnout) but that's also because the STV means protest votes can actually return sitting members (if not in the lower, definitely in the upper).

I've lived abroad for 17 years so I'm not eligible to vote. I know many people in the same situation. I can't vote in the country I live in now as I'm not a national and to become a national I'd have to give up my British nationality which I'm not prepared to do. So, I can't vote at all.

I think people who can vote but don't vote are showing their apathy and to me that's a valid point of view. No one should be forced to vote if they don't want to.

Friend of mine doesn't know who to vote for as "they are all full of shit" and she "doesn't understand any of it"

She's an NHS professional

Most of my current office don't vote. I was quite shocked as I've always worked with very engage people before. The reasons ranged from; they're all the same, I don't trust his/her face, it won't change anything, to "I can't be bothered".

I get the impression some of them think it's a bit edgy?

Annoys the fuck out of me as it might not make a huge difference to our lives (live in Canada so health services etc not under attack), but it could make a huge difference to people in poverty, people w addictions and school kids.

People have the right to not vote but I can't respect people who don't, at least spoil your ballot if you don't like any of the options but not turning up at all just adds to the idea that people don't care what politicians do so they carry on doing all their shit.

I don't live in the UK any more and my seat is a safe Tory seat but I still send in my postal vote, its too important not to even if my particular vote won't make a difference.

Reasons to vote, even if you're in a super safe seat.

Realistically, even if you live is a super-tight marginal, the chances of your vote actually counting and being the one vote that makes the difference is exceedingly tiny....

Representative democracy depends on us all choosing to vote because it's what's necessary to make the system work rather than us deciding to vote because we believe our individual vote will make a difference.

It's why I get annoying when people say voting for a minor party is a wasted vote... it's no more or less wasted than voting for a major party!

I don't believe in democracy. I think it's a shit system for governing a modern country. It feeds into the worst elements of human nature; tribalism, selfishness, vanity. It allows the manipulation of the population by oligarchs through the hire and purchasing of political performers, allowing the deluded masses to feel they are being radical, when it's very nature is to diffuse and defuse any genuine pressure for change or threat to the status quo. It isn't a political system, it's a political sport, a sort of Pokémon battle that the wealthy play where they hire and train up a party so they can throw it against another and bet on the outcome. It permits an insipid form of pluralism that allows different cultures to fractiously coexist without ever having to resolve their differences, achieve compromise or consensus, and therefore remain permanently weak and divided in the face of the power of the rich. You all know the media is corrupt, carrion propaganda machine in behalf of power crazed billionaires; But the politicians are just paid actors in the media's political theatre. Why is Corbyn suddenly a potential player, when the media have been alternately hammering him and ignoring home for weeks? Because the media sell more papers when the race is closer and dynamic, so he had to become a genuine threat to May to maintain people's interest in an otherwise stultifyingly boring vote.

And worst of all, while this stupid game goes on, it has a genuine horrible impact on governance. PR Men in all their rat-like glory are hired to detoxify political brands and end up holding referendums just for the benefit of that brands unity; And because the only thing more fucking imbecilic than the democratic lie is democratic reality, it potentially could cripple this country. Genuine vacuous idiots who's only achievements are business scams, reality TV and beauty contests get given access to nuclear weapons and the world's largest military, and why? BECAUSE ALL DEMOCRACY IS A REALITY TV BEAUTY CONTEST BUSINESS SCAM.

This isn't some edgy modern rationalisation of apathy - this starts with Plato, a foundational philosopher of western culture, writing in the birthplace of this inherently flawed system more than 2000 years ago. This is Hobbes, standing in the savage wreckage of the parliamentarian's civil war, crying out for social unity. This is Nietzsche, skewering the shibboleths of neo-christian vanity. This is every minority bloodied by the mob, seeing the mob deified as the heart of political value. This is fucking democracy and I'll have no truck with it.

Years ago I was a victim of a very serious incident which left me feeling unsafe in my community. I moved but tried to seek help from politicians when fighting the authorities. I had been let down by the NHS Social Services and the police. The tory mp in the area wouldn't help because I was no longer a constituent and the labour mp in my new area just kept referring me back to him.I can't bring myself to vote for either since. And I wouldn't have voted for him anyway because of his policies on business and development.

I don't understand the point of tactical voting or spoiling papers. Just seems a waste of time. I also live abroad now and feel very far away from British politics and it feels irrelevant but this election because of the issues and the characters involved is slightly more interesting.

I have done some of the online surveys and they show no loyalty to any particular party based on their policies which is how I feel people should vote. But because I don't feel any of it applies to me I also think its fine not to vote.

Nope, still don't get it. Because however much you fundamentally disagree with the system, hate the candidates, are in a state of despair etc, the system still is what it is and every person in the country has to live with your choice as much as with their own. I continue to believe that if you won't even go and write something on the ballot paper, you are just lazy. Evidenced by the fact that back when people had to work infinitely harder than most of us do just to get through the day, turnout was much higher.

To the pp who asked, a spoilt vote is one where anything other than a single cross is writen on the paper.

I lose respect for people who don't use their vote, lots of people say they dont understand or get politics. well for all those who don't get politics please just have a little think... do you care about getting your bins emptied, do you care about having street lights, do you care about your kids education,do you care about how you and your family are treated if you get ill, do you care about how you travel to work, do you care about how you will be cared for when you get old, this is all politics and everyone does get it, they just think that the label politics makes it into some magical shit that is only for the 'political' few. honestly it really isn't and we all care I'm sure. make sure you understand party manifestos by whatever method you can and vote with an informed choice. Its not rocket science to do a google on the parties and there are loads of 'simplified' versions of manifestos, lots of quizzes etc to help people see where their views best fit. VOTE its important for you, me and all our futures. Its apathetic not to.

I tend to look at manifestos as wishlists rather than promises. In a healthy democracy, there are enough checks and balances to tame the more outlandish pledges. This is why I've never felt too bad about voting tactically against a party rather than positively for one when my first choice party doesn't stand a chance in my constituency. I also think it's important to to choose how to vote based on your candidate, and not always on the party leader (although in 2015 I voted for the party - despite the candidate being a knob. I'm not consistent).

Our democracy in the last few years hasn't been particularly healthy, mind.

This year will be the first year I vote (I'm late 20's so don't know how many other times there have been for me to vote) and I've never voted before because I mostly don't understand it. I don't really know what any of the policies mean and how they actually affect things. I've just never been able to get my head around these sort of things. This year I've actually understood what JC is on about so that's why I'm going to vote for him .

Not sure if it's been said, but even in a safe seat your vote can help the opposing party- they count the number of votes for each party, and then those parties get given money to be in opposition in government based on their vote share.

It's called 'Short' money. The more votes a party gets, the more money they get.

So last government, UKIP were offered lots of money cos they got lots of votes. Douglas Carswell said he didn't need it all cos there was only one of him, and no other MPs. It really pissed off the rest of UKIP!

I haven't voted, aside for in the referendum, for over 20 years.

No one party really encompasses my views. I am very liberal (small l) in terms of sex/ gender equality, legalisation of low level drugs etc. But I don't agree with spending more on the NHS or other public services, or in blanket increases to the minimum wage. There are many other things too in which I find myself unable to link to any of the main parties. So I don't vote.

posh I'd never heard of that before - that's really interesting!

(oh and in case anyone wonders I'm not UKIP)

Strong together! Out with the Tories!!

See, I'm very much left-leaning and will be voting against the Conservatives (although I won't be voting Labour this time - partly as I'm voting tactically, but also because of Brexit). When people of any persuasion turn electoral campaigning into a series of football chants though, it grates.