Identifying victims after an attack

[Lucked]

There are more stories coming through about the frustration of families with missing relatives some of whom know they were caught up in the terror attacks who cannot confirm if they are amongst he dead. The Spanish foreign minister has also criticised the British authorities.

There is a quote in the DM which I won't link to which says

^Formal identification has to be done to a certain evidence standard and there are few types of formal evidence that are acceptable to a coroner.

'That process of identification will be happening throughout the course of this afternoon and into tomorrow.

'But that does not mean we have not identified the victims.'^

So they are admitting they know but families are phoning phones and checking hospitals and desperately holding out hope. I understand that in some incidents identification is very very difficult due to the injuries but the delay in these cases appears to be awaiting DNA and dental records. I don't think families and the coroners need the same standard; the police say they know.

Also when that formal identification has been completed there appears to be a further delay, the McMullen family were informed they could not told until after the report had gone to the coroner but if the standard is so high why wait any longer than the test result?

This seems so cruel but I think I will be in the minority on this.

sunny do you think that identification of the bodies and communication with families has been carried out in the best possible way? Do you really think that nothing could be improved?

I think this is not the time to be discussing this. I find it very difficult and I'm sure it's 10x worse for the families affected in the current attacks.

do you think that identification of the bodies and communication with families has been carried out in the best possible way?

Yes. There are a lot of procedures and processes in place that must be completed, and specific rules about who can be told and when for a reason. Not to mention that once you have provisionally identified a body you have to find their official next of kin and get their details and that all takes time and unfortunately they aren't always the only priority or even the only person whose identity they are trying to establish and confirm.

Unfortunately people watch the likes of CSI and things on TV where identification requires nothing more than a few taps on a computer system and the whole process is counted in minutes not hours and days that the real processes take.

Do you really think that nothing could be improved?

How do you propose to improve the system then?

I think this is not the time to be discussing this
Here we go

How do you propose to improve the system then?
There is another thread running about this, where a poster has explained the case of a victim of another attack, whose body took 11 days to be identified. The victim's mother then became involved with relevant services and together they came up with recommendations to improve. They have now found that none of those recommendations have been implemented.

The problem is that Mr X's family has only been contacted today. Almost 3 days after the event.

If there was no definite information to give before, what more could Mr X"s family have been told? And it's still the case that it's not for the authorities to make announcements about what contact they may or may not have had with any individual family.

I think they need to start seperating standard of evidence needed for a coroner from standard of evidence needed to tell a family. In this case, apart from the chap in the river they could all most likely have been identified facially but the family were given zero information.

I think they at least deserve to be told by the police that they are holding remains that they strongly believe to be those of their loved one, rather than just being told nothing.

We don't know WHAT is going on.

Beyond making assumptions from patchy news reports.

BillSykes; do you know which victims were stabbed in the face or had faces and bodies crushed by a van?

Ohtoblazes, are you party to detailed inside information which reveals what is and is not being achieved in respect to recommendations and whether it is possible?

Do you know which family members are legal next of kin?

Doubtless there will be an evaluation. But I can't see the point if us lot pontificating , speculating and finger pointing.

It is Undeniable that the situation will be agony for any family with any missing loved ones. We can't make that better right now by making assumptions and allegations about the process.

"I think they need to start seperating standard of evidence needed for a coroner from standard of evidence needed to tell a family"

I don't think it was standards of evidence that was the issue - the issue was that four people were missing and they only had three bodies unaccounted for (with no obvious ID on them). Two of those people were missing males - one was later found in the river. They didn't know which male body they had. It would have been absolutely horrific to go and disclose the information to the wrong family.

If you look at the photographs of the two males - they are both quite similar in their features too, which would have made it harder to identify them.

If you look at the photographs of the two males - they are both quite similar in their features
I disagree.

Apart from that, one wasn't seen after the attack where the person standing next to him was hit by a van -missing.

The other one was last seen lying down on the bridge after being stabbed in the back by the murderers - unidentified.

I understand that these days identification requires DNA tests which take longer. However in this case they must have had fingerprints. The man's sister went round hospitals asking for her brother, she traveled from Spain and was available to ID the body.

I agree with Billy. The families could have been treated more sensitively. What is said to the public is irrelevant at this stage imo.

@OhtoblazeswithElvira Were you there? It was absolute carnage - you cannot identify bodies from witness accounts in such circumstances - you just can't.

No one knew which was to run, one more guy hid for three days after it because he was unsure if it was safe for him to come out.

"However in this case they must have had fingerprints."

I've never had my fingerprints taken. Have you?

They take fingerprints in Spain. Compare the body's fingerprints with those supplied by the family within 24 hours of the event = match or no match.

I wasn't there, wonder if you were?

We only have press reports on how sensitively the families have been treated.

No one has ever taken my fingerprints.

And thinking about it, my family have no idea which dentist I use. Just, if they remember, that it is in a particular area of central London. I don't actually know which dental practice holds my DH's records or where exactly he goes!

There is only one person in London who is related to me by blood, everyone else who shares DNA is a long way away.

We don't know what is going on, in detail, but you obviously have an axe to grind, so I'll leave you to it.

There is only one person in London who is related to me by blood, everyone else who shares DNA is a long way away.

Wow, that's just made me realise that there are only 3 people in the UK with whom I share DNA: my brother (120 miles away), and a maternal aunt and cousin 50 miles away. My parents and all the other aunts and uncles are dead and my other cousins are in Canada, Australia and South Africa afaik.

We're not a close family and while I expect DP could put police in contact with my bro, I doubt if he even knows the names of anyone other than my aunt.

www.independent.co.uk/news/funeral-anguish-for-luxor-massacre-family-1296436.html

This is why they have to take the time to be sure.