Baby Change in Women's Toilets

[gandalfspants]

Inspired by the changing rooms thread but I didn't want to derail.

Yesterday DH travelled with DD (8 months) on a journey of 3 hours. He stopped at a services and needed to change a pooey nappy. The baby change was inside the area designated as women's toilets (but not actually within sight of any of the cubicles, sort of in the corridor leading towards the cubicles, but the walls are different colours so it's quite obviously considered part of the women's toilets).

He looked for the baby changing for quite a while, before asking a member of staff, who said something like 'You go into the Ladies' and it's on the right', while he took to mean he was allowed to go in to change DD.

No-one said anything at the time and I didn't think anything of it when he mentioned it other than being annoyed that once again it's assumed that the baby/child will be accompanied by a female at all times (I've sent feedback to the management company already).

Toilets are modern, clean, and look fairly recently refurbished so no excuse there, this could be solved easily by repainting a bit of wall and moving the signage so the women's toilets more clearly start past the point of the baby change.

Reading the changing rooms thread and recalling past threads about toilets I'm wondering...

WHBU to take DD to the baby change in the women's toilets?

I'm glad most people think HWNBU.

I hate that there's a choice (assuming I was there, say) between him being a publicly involved and present parent and women feeling safe.

I totally agree that the situation IU, he always does nappies (I BF, division of labour) if he's around. Even without the issue of women being made uncomfortable in a safe space it reinforces the stereotype that babies are women's work.

I remember two such occasions from when DS was small.

On one, I asked a passing woman to see if there was anybody in the baby-change and feeding room while I changed and fed (ff!) him. There was a woman bf her baby who said she did not mind. Obviously I did not stare at her and we just made a bit of polite chat while she did what she had to do and I did what I had to do. She went and when another woman came in I did not feel the need to apologise; I was there first. She did not seem bothered.

On the other, I asked a woman just coming out with her baby to go and ask. This time the woman inside did mind and the one who had asked her very kindly went back in and changed DS for me - he did not need a feed.

It's a problem if the only place to change a baby is also the only place to feed a baby, isn't it?

I'm not suggesting you don't, trifle, most people on this thread seem in agreement.

gandalf exactly!

I've been in one place where the only baby change facilities were in the ladies toilets, right where the cubicles are and beside the hand basins. It didn't really affect me as I was changing the baby but I did wonder if any men ever ventured in there.

What annoyed me more was actually having the changing table so close to the hand driers. Someone started drying their hands and the drier was so loud and terrified my baby who started screaming. I'd only started to change her so had to finish up before I could get packed up and out of there. At least if you're in a private disabled/baby change loo you can choose to not use the hand drier and use a hand towel instead if your baby is like mine and scared easily by loud noises.

Wish they'd think about all these things when designing their facilities!

Andrewofgg I hadn't even considered feeding/changing rooms as a 'female only space' but I suppose lots of people would.

I went into Mothercare once. Inside was a room labelled 'Mother's Room' (with the apostrophe as I've written). Now, what on earth is a Mothers' Room for? Breastfeeding? Baby changing? Having a wee? A changing room? If I'd gone in there expecting to be able to change my baby, as there was no definition of what the room was for (bearing in mind the name of the shop was Mothercare, I could have interpreted it as a Parents' room, much as the name of this website), would I have been in the wrong?

On the other, I asked a woman just coming out with her baby to go and ask. This time the woman inside did mind and the one who had asked her very kindly went back in and changed DS for me - he did not need a feed.

You let a total stranger change your baby???!! I think that should be a thread in itself!

Dingalingalingaling

Our local Mothercare has a room for feeding/changing with multiple changing stations and bottle warmers and I'd never considered it a female only space, but I suppose being a confident public breastfeeder I hadn't considered that other breastfeeders might not want men in there for whatever reason, I have no idea what it's labelled as (the door is usually open and the feeding seats are not visible from the door), but I'll be having a look next time I'm in there.

If it's 'Mother's Room' I might asks them who 'Mother' is!

If there are public toilet designers out there I agree with the person who said please put the hand dryers away from the nappy change table. On many occasions DS has tried to jump off from fear of the sound.

I do think John Lewis have the right idea, parent's room - all welcome. Room to change, feed and a screened off area for the unconfident breast feeders. But how many companies are willing to give up so much space.

In Korea the room is called the Baby Room. Makes more sense. However breast feeding is so unacceptable in public that the rooms tend to be pretty much everywhere and generally only women and babies go. We did find one in a Seoul department store which allowed men in to a neutral zone where you parked prams (not that they use many prams)/sat around and used the wifi.

FuzzyPillow She had just changed her own, I'd have to believe she knew how and it was that or the cold tiled floor of the men's loos. It was a generous gesture and I was grateful to her. And let me add not pissed off with the woman who did not want me to come in.

Some women would feel threatened by a man in the ladies. He'd be quite within his rights to change the baby on the manager's desk though IMO!

Our local shopping centre has the baby change inside a toilet cubicle in the ladies toilet making it doubly inconvenient.

"I have changed my baby (many years ago now) on a toilet floor on the changing mat when there wasn't a pull down changing table."

You've never been in a gent's loo have you? You would not go anywhere near the floor in most of them.

Changing tables only in the ladies winds me up, it's always places like restaurants where you can't just change the child in the open.

The answer is to have baby changing facilities in the men's and women's toilets. There are a couple of pubs near me which cater to both sexes.

Because both men and women are parents/guardians/carers of babies.

This has just reminded me how much I hated feeding in Mothercare, it always stank of dirty nappies. My favourite was Boots which had a proper posh feeding chair.

I wish we could just have unisex toilets, all cubicles, no urinals. Then no inequality of only women queuing. Then no issue when my 7 year old son wants to use the mens, and I either have to persuade him to go in the ladies or I have to put my head round the mens to call him if he's been gone a while!

I'm with Elastic but only if the cubicles are floor to ceiling and contain basins (like in a restaurant near me).

Not U. The designers of the layout are U.

For anyone wondering, the service station management replied that the babychange isn't in the female toilets.

No mention of the fact that it definitely appears to be, and that their staff describe them as being so.

I guess that means he definitely wasn't BU then.

I'm curious here - some women are intimidated by a man in the toilets? How do you not know that the woman next to you is not a man?
It is ridiculous that any one would be wary of a man changing his kid in the toilets.
Seriously if a member of staff asked where the mum was to change their kid - how bloody insulting!

seems nothing has changed in 21 years .

some women are intimidated by a man in the toilets? How do you not know that the woman next to you is not a man?

Well, this is a HUGE can of worms, but briefly:
Some people are genetically male but permanently live as women and have had surgery and no longer have a penis and, as a whole, don't appear male. They are, by many reasonable definitions, still male but generally not threatening to women even if those women have experienced sexual violence (but I'm not one of those so YMMV).

Some people are genetically and biologically male and have not had any sex change surgery and while living as a woman do have a penis and some of them are clearly male, to the extent that women who have been raped etc. would find them threatening in what they were expecting to be a female only space.

And some people are goady fuckers who don't even attempt to appear female, are biologically male with no question whatsoever about it, but state that they "feel" female and expect that they should be allowed in women's loos because of their own personal delicate flower feelings. They are likely to be even more triggering in a supposedly female only space to women who ditto see above.

It's so wrong that baby change facilities aren't in male, female and disabled loos - why is there this insane assumption that all babies should be accompanied by an able-bodied female at all times?

I'm surprised it's allowed in law, tbh. It's definitely super-annoying and would make me avoid places without adequate facilities.

I agree notweaving - it should be more readily available.