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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

7 year old being made to do this by after school club..

96 replies

Figureitout1 · 04/06/2017 11:30

Picked up my DD7 from after school club (based in a nursery) on Friday and she was very upset. Turns out she and a friend had been in the loo (shared with 2 other classes - 3-5years class and 1-3 years class, about 60kids altogether). The friend had come in with muddy shoes and left muddy footprints. One of the cleaners in the nursery noticed and had a massive go at them and made them clean it up with paper towel!

I am very cross about this
a) because it's a toilet floor used by so many kids so the potential of them picking something up is high
b) my DD hadn't made the mess in the first place
c) they are kids and although they have to learn to clean up after themselves I feel this overstepped the mark.

I plan on speaking to the nursery about this next time they are in (Tuesday) but AIBU?

OP posts:

Armadillostoes · 04/06/2017 13:16

YANBU If I was told to clean up a floor when I hadn't made a mess of it I would refuse, it wouldn't matter if it was a cleaner or a CEO asking me. If I was asked nicely if I would mine helping out I would do it. The person doing the ordering around was wrong, it is irrelevant that she was a cleaner.

Armadillostoes · 04/06/2017 13:17

Sorry if asked nicely I WOULDN'T mine helping. Children have the same right to courtesy as adults.

StillStayingClassySanDiego · 04/06/2017 13:20

If you do come back to the thread OP I'd suggest you don't mention this to the staff , you might sound like a bit of a prize plum.

cardibach · 04/06/2017 13:21

gilly I hate this attitude: t's what the cleaners get paid for. I roast kids I teach for expressing it. A cleaner's job is to clean the inevitable mess of lots of people using a facility. It is not to clear up for people wilfully making a mess and taking no responsibility because they know there are cleaners.
The children should have wiped their feet. It doesn't need to be a 'policy', it should be natural FFS! And in any case, if schools etc done expect foot wiping, why do they have door mats? Wiping up the mess is a consequence of their actions, not a punishment. I too, like a PP, doubt that only one of them had dirty feet if they'd been together. If one had wiped her feet, the other would have, as it would have reminded her.

CauliflowerSqueeze · 04/06/2017 13:23

corythatwas
I completely agree.

What the OP wanted was for people to be Shocked Disgusted and Outraged and to recommend complaining to Headteachers and Governors and Ofsted.

Make a mess. Clean it up. Easy

user1487194234 · 04/06/2017 13:24

In the setting I am involved with the cleaners should not give the children rows/ instructions and parents would be entitled to complain
Matter should be referred to ASC staff

But

I would have been breezy with my DC Life is sometimes unfair and the sooner they learn that the better

sugarhaste · 04/06/2017 13:25

I don't think its acceptable for a 7 yo to wipe toilet floors with paper. By all means teach them a lesson - whoever made the mess - but not with bare hands with something that is not appropriate for the job.

BoraThirch · 04/06/2017 13:25

And just to make brasty's point we have a parent saying "if the teacher asks you to do something and its not fair, just refuse"
Sorry Armadillo, but if any of my class of 4 year olds told me mummy says I don't have to it wouldn't get them very far! I often have 4 year olds saying its not my mess, I didn't get it out and I gently remind that we are a class and cleaning up is everybody's job.

Willow2017 · 04/06/2017 13:26

Really?

They were told to clean up their own mess with some paper towels not drink out the toilet!

What possible harm could they come to from a bit of mud? I presume there were sinks to wash their hands after?

Jeese the teachers will love you if you go in complaining about that.

And how can they be taught to clean up after themselves if you are going to only pick the 'nice' bits to pick up and ban them from picking up something as 'awful' as a bit of mud!

DoloresTheRunawayTrain · 04/06/2017 13:27

The cleaners method teaches:

If you make a mess clean it up.
If we all work together things get done quicker.
If feet are wiped on the way in this doesn't happen.
To have a bit of respect for someone elses work.

Your reaction teaches:

There are people in life below me and as such I can ignore them, treat them with contempt or as lesser because of their status. This also introduces the idea of different is less and therefore bad, a nice potential pathway to bigotry.

If someone is in trouble, makes a mistake or needs help they are on their own.

I do not have to take responsibility for my actions.

Other people's work is worthless.

YABU.

unapaloma · 04/06/2017 13:28

So when the PPs who say they'd refuse to clean up anyone else's mess were kids, did they clear only their own mess in art in primary school, and refuse to do any more? And presumably refused any errands the teacher told them to do, as it wasn't their job? I doubt people really got away with that 'not my problem' approach as kids, and its very sad that (admittedly a small number) feel that no one should ever have to muck in and help others.

I guess you have a special rule for family, where you are prepared to help them (or do all the kids make their own meal, and wash up just their own plate etc. afterwards)?
As an aside, was it really the case that the 2 kids met up to go to the loo, but one had been outside and got muddy shoes, while the other had completely clean soles. It seems more likely that they came in from outside together, both a bit muddy, but the OPs DD feels it was unfair and has creatively remembered having completely clean shoes?

catkind · 04/06/2017 13:30

I'd wear gloves for cleaning a bathroom floor. And use a mop.

So in my opinion cleaner WBU, it seems a rather undignified and unhygienic way of cleaning up. If cleaner had indeed just cleaned the floor, they'd have had a mop handy. If they hadn't, even more yuck to ask the kids to do it with paper towels.

BoraThirch · 04/06/2017 13:34

Children touch the toilet floor all the time. They drop things, they kneel down to look under the toilet door, they crouch to wipe their bums, they push their knickers down to their shoes etc. Wiping mud off a clean floor with a paper towel and then washing their hands is really not a hygiene problem.

catkind · 04/06/2017 13:39

Bora, at 7 I'd have cringed to touch a school toilet floor. And even if they do, adults should be teaching them not to, not encouraging it.

I'm sure the cleaner wouldn't have cleaned the floor on hands and knees with paper towel would they?

delilah245 · 04/06/2017 13:42

It has nothing to do with being reprimanded. The kids (whether yours or her friend) made a mess. They were asked to clean it up, nothing wrong with that.

I make messes all the time and clean them up right away, because it is the right thing to do. Or our house would be covered in spills, dirty dishes, and a filthy floor. It isn't me being "punished" as some have suggested, it's being aware and responsible of my own messes. My dd is 2 and already gets napkins to clean up when she spills something on the table/floor, she likes to help.

Not saying your dd was lying, but could the events have been twisted in any way? 7 year olds are very good at their own little versions of truth... in example: cleaner could have come in while they were laughing at "making designs with the mud from their shoes". I am a nanny and the kids do things like that all the time. I don't get infuriated, but I will definitely ask them to clean it up and redirect them. I am more inclined to believe the adult than the child who didn't get their way or were asked to do something they just don't like to do (like clean, nap, not have candy, etc) that seems sensible.

BoraThirch · 04/06/2017 13:46

catkins - I think most adults would be fine to have wiped a bit of mud from a clean floor with a paper towel. Maybe seeing that you could have done it as a 7 year old and been fine would have been good for you.

Mummyoflittledragon · 04/06/2017 13:49

I agree with most other posters. It was fine. Perhaps the cleaner got a bit cross, we don't know. And what Dolores said.

Milktraylover · 04/06/2017 13:52

I'm a nursery manager that has a after school club. Most cleaners are not in when the nurserys are open because most staff do basic cleanup throughout the day and cleaners come in during the evening to do toilets, hoovering, wash floors etc. Are you sure it was not a nursery/ club staff member?

As a side note it's unusual for a nursery that has a after school club to have integrated toilets like this because they can take up to year 6 pupils so they don't mix them in with the little ones.

Personally she should not have shouted at them, in fact the cleaner should not have instructed them do anything which is I think you really need to check if it was a club or nursery staff member.

If it was a club or nursery staff member they should not have shouted or had a "massive go" this would be a very unusual occurrence btw but yes I think it's important for them to have put paper towels down and then swished them with their feet. The staff member should have then said Thankyou and that's the end of it.

If it was a cleaner then yes this is completely unreasonable, she should have got a staff member to deal with it who probably would have instructed them to do the exact same thing.

I think you Abu to be so angry about them mopping it up with paper towels but no one should be having "a massive go" at anyone in a nursery/ after school club setting. I think you need clarification on the matter and then you can bring your concerns up with the lead playworker. I don't think it warrants any more than a DD was upset on Friday about this, could you please enlighten me abit and go from there.

brasty · 04/06/2017 13:53

It depends what they mean by, having a massive go. Children who are not used to being corrected, interpret things in a different way from other children.

unapaloma · 04/06/2017 13:56

I'm sure the cleaner wouldn't have cleaned the floor on hands and knees with paper towel would they?
Probably not, and fortunately, there's no indication that the OPs DD had to do that either!
She was asked to clean up some specific dirt, not a whole floor, which I'm sure was possible by bending down. No need for a healthy 7 year old to crawl on the floor, and ample facilities nearby to wash her hands after wiping the mud. Really not difficult or dangerous!

BoraThirch · 04/06/2017 14:00

I find it very odd that you have a policy of banning cleaning staff from talking to the children Milktray - what's the thinking behind that? Every school and nursery I have worked in has expected support staff to be treated with the same respect as teaching/childcare staff.

Mumoftu · 04/06/2017 14:04

I've never been in a school that has kids wipe their feet or has mats to do this. The areas may be carpetted by the doors so that they get walked over first. But imagine the whole school coming in after dinner and all the kids stopping and blocking the doorway to thoroughly wipe their feet - no hazard there at all!
Public spaces have easily moppable floors/dark hardwearing carpets for this reason. Obviously if there is a mat you use it but I doubt there would have been with it being a nursery - the children probably usually change into wellies for outdoor play.

Fairenuff · 04/06/2017 14:08

The cleaner at our school said that our staff were lovely, friendly and inclusive. She really felt part of the team. In her previous job, staff would barely look at her, let alone talk to her. So yes, attitudes to cleaning staff do vary and I think it's down to the SLT of the setting to set the tone and expectation.

Our SLT would support the staff member in the situation you describe OP but the 'massive go' would need to be clarified.

Tbh maybe she was cross if she had just cleaned the floor and your dd needs to know that it's ok to feel cross but it's not ok to shout or hit, for example.

SnugglyBedSocks · 04/06/2017 14:10

My Ds age 3 at the time threw the remnants of his lunch on the floor whilst at nursery. The Pre-school teacher handed him a dustpan and brush and made him clean it up.

He didn't do it again...

brasty · 04/06/2017 14:23

SnugglyBedSocks I would have done that as a worker. I am a big fan of natural consequences, usually much more effective than other methods.

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