To kind of hope my chosen party doesn't win the election?

[sweetbitter]

I am a Labour supporter, but find myself starting to worry about them winning the GE. I think it is pretty probable that the next 5 years will be economically and diplomatically bad for the UK whichever way you cut it, because of Brexit. I don't really understand how either party could make a go of it in the short term, the negotiations and immediate aftermath seem likely to be painful and difficult, barring a miracle. Even if the economic consequences aren't as bad as many predict, how can anyone be seen to get a "good deal" when half the country didn't want Brexit anyway and the other half all want different things out of it?

So given that I believe no party is likely to make a short term success of Brexit, AIBU to almost hope the Tories do win? They can deal with the inevitably difficult and thankless Brexit negotiation period and aftermath and leave Labour in a stronger position to win public support back after the worst of it is perhaps over...can't stand the idea of Labour winning, Brexit going inevitably badly and the Tories crowing that it would never have happened like that under them when it's all bloody David Cameron's fault anyway.

My vote doesn't matter anyway as in the safest of safe seats, and I'm not saying I'd seriously want my party to lose anyway...but I keep coming back to this thought. Wonder what others think.

Yes, I've had this thought too. 😞

I despair.

Looking in from the outside the UK, this definitely looks like an election that one would not want to win.

If you want them to win then vote for them

I think you are right. We are in for a nightmare time. If we could turn the clock back and have a realistic discussion about leaving Europe it would have so much Better. There should have been more time, more thought and more balance in dealing with the referendum result.The Conservative Party have a lot to answer for. They let UKIP bounce them into the referendum without a plan it we voted out. Now it is the voters who are going to suffer, whichever party gets in.

I think Theresa May has irritated them with her aggressive stance. I think Jeremy Corbyn thinks that if he is reasonable , Europe will be too.

If you think labour is more competent, surely you want them to win?

Don't you want the most competent people negotiating Brexit on our behalf? It is so profoundly important and we can't change it later.

AddTo - I believe in Labour values, but when it comes to the specific issue of Brexit I don't really see either party as more competent, it seems to be six of one and half a dozen of another. I was very disappointed that Labour and JC didn't put up more of a fight re: Brexit both before and after the referendum.

I sort of hope that TM's "no deal is better than a bad deal" / "hard Brexit all the way" stance is just a negotiating tactic. But I guess there's something in what Astriana says, that JC might hope he could be more reasonable and get a more reasonable response from Europe... Then again Europe has very little incentive to give us a good deal however much they might want to as they obviously need to discourage other member states from leaving...

If you think his judgement (and his team's judgement) are sounder - then vote for them.

These negotiations are going to require highly intelligent and competent people to make the best of them. Our political class does have those people.

Not another of these

sweet bitter I've had similar concerns. It's almost as if the Tories dismal campaign has been preconceived. I mean, that appalling manifesto and taking away from pensioners, the most reliable voters? No one can be this bad unless they don't particularly want to win. No one's going to make a go of this and if labour fuck it up, they'll be gone forever.

I will disagree with you about Corbyns remain stance. I followed him avidly before the referendum (as I did all leaders) and he was out there constantly doing things for the campaign. He can't control that the press didn't cover it.

I do, however think the conservatives have made a mess of brexit already. They've had an appalling "enemy of the state" attitude towards the EU since brexit and have created an incredibly toxic negotiating environment.

I am holding out for a hung government, if there was ever a time when cross party agreement was needed it's now.

That's why the Labour votes needs to come out on Thursday and make the difference between the two main parties as small as possible.

Yabu. I didn't want brexit but it's happening. To me a "good deal" is not attempting to hoodwink/bully the rest of Europe into giving us what we want. What matters most to me is that it's not used as an excuse to dismantle workers rights, Hunan rights, health and safety legislation and environmental protection.
I feel a lot safer with anyone but the conservatives in charge.

Brexit is not going to be negotiated by Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn, it will be David Davis or Keir Stammer (or Nick Clegg).
I know who are the better trade negotiators. Hint: Keri Stammer was a top lawyer, Nick Clegg was a professional trade negotiator, David Davis thinks 100 pages of detail is good going in about 9 months.

We need labour in power if we are to save the NHS and state education. Brexit is a distraction from key policies at home.

I definitely think this.

I think brexit will be an awful shambles and crash the economy (such as it is, after our shocking bottom-of-the-G7 last year's performance), for which I blame Tory infighting and a hideously vague referendum wording.

I feel the next five years will be horrific, and with seemingly new levels of political engagement it won't take much for the population to turn on whoever is in power and blame their government for the mess. It seems unfair if Labour have to come in and cop that given the way brexit came about.

But on the other hand, while brexit is the key topic of the moment, I can't entirely ignore the outrageous underfunding of public services and what I see as signs of a country run against my values - huge rise in food bank usage, working people unable to afford cost of living, ongoing cuts to the poor and disabled etc. Making the Torys lie on the bed they made also goes hand in hand with continued austerity, an approach I do not agree with.

But Brexit is going to massively affect the UK economy, which in turn affects things like how much money can be given to the NHS. Not to mention the NHS is so reliant on EU workers. I do agree with you that we have to save the NHS, but not that Brexit is a distraction from this - I think the two are linked. Though obviously I trust Labour to try harder to save it than the Tories...

Get real, Jeremy could have helped prevent Brexit if he hadn't been too much of a twat to share a platform with Tory Remainers, including the then and later Prime Ministers. He is partly responsible.

I agree it is likely to be a big mess. Britain simply needed (and needs) to make the welfare state less attractive to the outside world and numbers will go down. I don't think anyone minds people coming in who are going to contribute. If someone, anyone, had grasped this nettle we wouldn't be leaving the EU now.

If that's directed at me, I'm not on the Corbyn is a saviour train. But he is not equally responsible as the people who called the ill thought out referendum! I'm not even, although I voted Remain, unaware of valid concerns with the EU. But the referendum and now brexit are imo such poor ways to address this.

Saying Corbyn is responsible for brexit is the same as May responding to election pressure by pointing a panicked finger at Corbyn and demanding of us if we can trust him to run brexit. A course of events we were in no danger of facing until she called an unnecessary general election.

I'm Tory, but I have voted Labour in the past. I do though agree with some of the Labour manifesto, and had someone else been leader other than Corbyn, I might have been swayed, but I think it's pretty obvious that he can't be trusted to lead us if he won the GE. I just feel he is saying what he thinks people want to hear, and keeping his opinions pretty moderate on most things, just to win the election. But I suspect this is all a facade and the true Jeremy will come through if he wins - the one he portrayed before the GE was called. You've got to applaud his spin doctors though for doing such a good job, bearing in mind the narrowing margin between the parties in recent weeks.

I know what you mean OP. But we can't predict the future so I think that this would be a very silly reason to vote for the Tories.

At least Labour would reduce the economic impact of Brexit (by going for a soft Brexit rather than hard Brexit).

Is Jeremy Corbyn being 'spinned'? He's sticking to Labour policy which is more moderate than his own views but maybe it's his authenticity that people are actually warming to. Suspect the parliamentary labour party are even more surprised than the Tories. Labour have showed that they are capable of a coherent strategy and surprisingly well-thought out manifesto while the Tories are floundering all over the place. There's nothing about taxes in their manifesto yet Fallon is announcing there will be no tax rises if they are elected. Given the Brexit fallout, this is simply irresponsible and knee-jerky.

It's directed at the thread, Drylce, which has an absurd premise:

"I hope the party I want to win doesn't win because they aren't good enough to govern"

No individual poster addressed, simply the inherent absurdity of the thread.

User, where did you get the "not god enough to govern" bit from? I clearly said I don't think either party, or even any party is "good enough" to make a short term success of Brexit because I can't see how it can be done. Success being measured here by public opinion and economical markers. And I think Brexit will overshadow and impact on practically every other element of governing in the next few years.

I also said I'm not entirely serious about not wanting them to win, but keep thinking this nonetheless. I guess it's more that of the Tories do win, which I still tend to think they will, this line of thinking will be my consolation prize.

Ah I see, sorry! I thought the thread was more a reflection on the poisoned chalice this election could turn out to be. To be clear, I am definitely not changing my vote because of it.

At most, I will admit I will probably have a bitter laugh at the mess the Torys will have to clean up when they win next week...but I'm aware I only have the relative luxury of doing this by being healthy and well off enough that the cuts haven't affected me

OK, OP and Drylce, the expanded explanations make sense to me.

But perhaps we Remainers are being defeatist and whoever gets in could make a good go of Brexit? Presumably then they'd be entitled to rule for a generation afterwards