To change my mind about voting Labour if they are to be in coalition/propped up by the SNP?

[LeCreusetQueen]

Just that really. Having read the Manifestos, I had decided to vote Labour, but the possibility of them being in coalition with or propped up by the SNP, has given me serious doubts.

I still feel bitter about the introduction of university tuition fees south of the border and, no disrespect to the Scots, but I really don't want them having the casting vote in matters which are of no direct concern to them.

I actually rather liked DC's idea of increased devolution - within the EU, that is, not sure now, but then everything seems unsure at the moment.

I thought Corbyn recently refused to rule out forming a coalition Government with the SNP and the Liberal Democrats if voters return a hung parliament later this month.
"The Labour leader told a reporter "you'd better ask me on June 9th" when asked whether he would put together a Government backed by other parties if he fails to win a majority.”

I believe this was only two days ago? Has he said something more recently to rule it out?
And quite frankly even if he has, can he be trusted? Personally concerned by the flip flopping on the question.

Is it just SNP MPs that are the problem? If Scotland went back to voting in loads of Labour MPs, and they backed a Corbyn-led government, would that be ok? If we voted in enough Tory MPs to tip the balance and keep the Tories in power in Westminster? If the numbers were massively tight and Plaid Cymru MPs held the balance of power would that be a problem? Was John Major spending his last few years as PM relying on Ulster MPs that nobody else in the UK could vote for a problem?

Another wavering Labour voter Magical?

I'd expect any party leader with a chance at running the country to take it, even if it meant occasionally consulting another party. I think after the experience of the Lib Dems and the aftermath of 2010-2015 all parties will be wary of official coalitions, but I really don't see the problem with issue by issue consensus seeking.

If anyone is flip flopping, it is weak and wobbly Theresa May who can't seem to stick at anything and can't be bothered showing up to justify herself unless she gets sole billing. And how strange that the 'scary SNP' story is being dusted off after several weeks of May arsing up the election that she herself claimed was totally unnecessary.

Blaaaaaah - there were 6 SNP MPs in 2010. They all voted against tuition fees.

Are you confused with something else?

Corbyn has said no coalition with SNP, SNP have said no coalition with Labour. SNP and Labour despise each other. I think the closest you'd possibly get is a minority government with a confidence and supply deal.

I'm Scottish and my choice is do I vote to save us or do I vote to save you? Do I take a punt on "For the many, not the few" or I do I leave you to bear the consequences of your own choice and skip off to enjoy my free prescriptions and lack of tuition fees?

oooh its just like a re-run of the last election scaremongering
dont worry, labour have already ruled out any coalitions, fuck knows why, but maybe so tory scare tactics are less effective. rest easy, op.

To be honest I'd want any party that wins without a majority to work out some kind of deal with other parties, whether that's a formal coalition or not. Much rather have a functioning government than a hung parliament, all parties folding their arms and refusing to budge, and then another election.

Piglet - I don't see your problem. They debate the issues and come to an agreement. Maybe they allow another Indy ref, but campaign strongly for a "no" vote. Maybe they allow a vote on whatever pile of shit Brexit deal we get. The point is, you get a consensus. Is it better to vote for a party knowing that they're going to fuck you over?

Bizarre logic.

The point is, you get a consensus.

Well that worked well for the LibDems didn't it

Nothing bizarre logic about it.

magicalunicorns

According to the Guardian article yesterday:

"Asked if he would consider negotiating with other parties if there was a hung parliament, Corbyn said: “We are not doing deals, we are not doing coalitions, we are not doing any of these things. We are fighting to win this election.”"

"Well that worked well for the LibDems didn't it"

No, but it worked better for the country than a purely Tory government would have done.

Bizarre...

YABU. I don't understand the issue with the tuition fee thing at all? IF Labour did form a coalition, tuition would be free for everyone anyway (actually a policy I disagree with, though it would benefit me)

Also a Lab/SNP coalition is a hundred times better than Tory.

I do think if there was a Lab/SNP coalition though, Scotland should not be doing seperate things for itself? if tha makes any sense. Like now, Scottish people don't have to pay bedroom tax where in the rest of the UK, we do. So there should be no more of the unevenness (is that even a word?!)

But whilst the Tories are in charge, I totally understand SNP doing whats right for Scotland and Scotland alone. Do you expect them all to just suck up the ridiculous cuts and such when they don't have to?

is this a possibility? I've heard that JC has denied it, but have also heard that Thornberry has made a statement saying it's a possibility (confused)

Horny there's no bedroom tax in Scotland because the Scottish parliament has provided the funds to negate it. The Westminster gov could choose to do that too, though would be an odd move give they brought it in.

"I still feel bitter about the introduction of university tuition fees south of the border and, no disrespect to the Scots, but I really don't want them having the casting vote in matters which are of no direct concern to them."

I googled this OP. Tuition fees were introduced in 1998, the 1997 general election results are shown in the attached map. Yellow is SNP. Not sure why you're blaming SNP.

Yanbu, that would be scary.

And because he's said he won't go into coalition with them he won't. Rightio.

lucydogz - not really. First: Corbyn's said no coalition, Sturgeon's said no coalition. Second: Even if we believe the polls that are giving the best outcome for Labour, they still wouldn't have enough MPs to form a coalition with the SNP. So, no, not going to happen unless pigs start flying.

Don't believe that Jeremy wouldn't be straight on the phone to Nicola if a coalition was a possibility. He might say so now, but he's out to win a majority, not a hung parliament. They ALL say no coalition, but when the chips are down....

And Ms Sturgeon's price for giving Jezza her support would indoubtedly be IndyRef2, which a majority of Scottish voters don't want.

This has seriously worried me too - mainly because the one thing the SNP would demand, in return for their support, would be Indyref2. Indyref1 was an awful experience - some of the divisions and hurts are still raw, here in Scotland, and I genuinely don't think my mental health can stand another round of independence campaigning, with its clear statement that you can't love Scotland, if you are pro-Union.

I fear that Labour would give away the Union, to gain power at Westminster.

I am pretty sure that the majority of people in Scotland don't want another independence referendum, but am not sure Labour will care about this, if Indyref2 is the price of being in power. Indyref1 was supposed to be a once in a generation thing, and the SNP won't respect this (and it was them who said it) unless they are made to. Will Labour make them respect it?

The thought of any collaboration between Sturgeon and Corbyn is terrifying.

The most optimistic poll for Labour right now is the YouGov one putting them on 257 seats. That's way ahead of other estimates, and the other pollsters all think it's too high. But ok, let's assume it's true and they get 257.

Also, let's assume the SNP do well. In fact, let's assume they win every single seat in Scotland. Not going to happen, but for the purposes of thought experiment, let's say they do. That would put them on 59.

257 + 59 = 316. Not a majority.

So even if they're both lying about a coalition, and even if they're both willing to bury the hatchet - they couldn't form a coalition anyway!

I think it would be sad if you changed your vote because of that. If you are English, you still have many more MPs than any of the nations, and quite frankly we really need a more left government right now. The Tories are planning on selling off NHS assets like hospitals for example. The Prime Minister has said this herself in an interview with regard to the Naylor Report. If you don't have income to cover health insurance you really need to consider this. Its shocking and I'm aghast that the media aren't in a frenzy about it 😔