ATBU to do all they can to avoid paying for their care in old age?

[WateryTart]

Bit of a do in the village hall last night and we were sharing a table with a couple we only vaguely know. The conversation turned inevitably to the election and various hot issues.

The couple took early retirement and are in their 60s. They have already given their house to their DCs and pay them the going rate in rent. Plus they have made substantial trust funds for their DGCs. They give their DCs money towards their expenses, like a new car or home improvements. They are determined to have no savings or assets above the prescribed limit by the time they need care.

This is because the DW's father was in a nursing home for the last 3 years of his life which he had to pay for himself. In the next room was a man who bragged he was fully funded by the council. They found out the council only paid 2 thirds of what DF was paying so he was, in effect, subsidising this man as well as paying for himself.

I can see why they feel as they do, it's one thing to pay for yourself but quite another to pay for someone else as well.

They feel that in future everyone should have to take out insurance bonds in their 20s because either everyone should pay towards their care or no one should pay.

It was an interesting discussion. ATBU?

They're virtually impossible to obtain stop. You can't buy them on the darknet anyway.

stopfuckingshoutingatme
a trip to Turkey and a visit to a Vets suppliers.

Where's the evidence to suggest that self funding residents subsidise LA funded residents?

But he's not subsidising their care and if he was why should that matter? Does he know why they get funded? Have they confessed that they had loads of cash but pissed it all so they could stay in a council house all their lives for the sole purpose of screwing the care system in old age?

Read the first post.

Thats not evidence watery.

That's not how it works. The council tell the care home "we will pay £800 a week. The care home often take this, due to the certainty of payment and the "bulk discount" element. This isn't the same as selling the beds at a loss.

The charge a private customer as much as they can.

The private customer isn't subsidising. The customer in the bed next to OPs friend certainly wouldn't know anything about the detail of the care homes profitability.

The private customer isn't subsidising

Having looked at around 15 care homes for different needs of both my parents over the last 3 years, I can tell you that more than half of all places we visited either charge self funded (private) residents more (typically around 25% I found) or have a surcharge on the state funded payment which families often pay because they would be operating at a loss if their income was capped at that price. So yes, in all these instances they typically are subsidising.

There are very high costs and very low margins in residential care which is why you're seeing more consolidation across groups and independent care homes struggling to survive without continually raising fees... whilst the state pays as little as it possibly can.

Homes don't always take every council funded person, because too many at low funding could force closure (it's the same as nurseries beginning to limit the number of 'free' places because the funding for them is inadequate)

So the worry for me would be that you will not get the lovely local home you thought would be obviously best for you. But the one that agrees to take another state-funded placement. Loss of choice can be a bit grim.

I don't see how it differs to people frittering money throughout their life who then are under the cut off. Many pensioners are over the cut off because they've been previously been prudent.

Fruit cake I'm sorry but whether or not a private customer is subsidising the council customer isn't something you would know from visiting a million care homes, let alone 3. You'd have to know their costs, margins, debt and other circumstances.

They charge a private customer as much as they can. They can't charge the council as much as they can- they would if they could! But the council will refuse to pay.

Council contracts are frequently cancelled by care homes because they are no profitable/ breaking even.

To suggest that private customers are subsidising because they pay more is simplistic

Echo what previous posters said about the choice if you are council funded. You can't pick a nice home, start paying and then the council picks up the tab. You will be moved to a cheaper home. My mother spent her last weeks in a lovely home (she was paying). The previous occupant of her room - lovely, overlooking the garden with en suite - had to leave due to running out of funds. I know this from the ds. He said that regretfully he and his family could not afford to pay hundreds of pounds a week to keep his mother there.

The pil went into a home. No one could have looked after mil. By the time she was admitted to a home (very much against her will and fil's) she was doubly incontinent and what social services termed a "screamer". No "naice" home would take her so in spite of being self-funding she had to pay full fees at what no one would call a "naice" home.

The problem of how to pay for old age is so thorny. No one wants to pay, and no one wants to envisage themselves as an incontinent demented shell. For every celebrity who comes out and admits they have Alzheimer's, there are 100, 200 ordinary people who vehemently deny there is anything wrong with them and go to extraordinary lengths to cover it up until it's far too late for them to make decisions about their (possibly long) future.

My FIL is using all his money to stay at home with the help of a private carer. He has a much better life than many people being paid for by the state. Many people remain at home with paid carers, long before going into a home

It does make sense to sort out your home so that you can use it long into decline before you need it. That way you can be cared for in your own home for much longer if you need it and may not need it quite so soon. It is bound to be much less stressful than waiting until you fall or have an accident then equipping your place with stair lifts and bath seats and beds that don't fit in the space well, so that you can go back home again.