Enforced wearing of blazer (wool) in hot weather

[Sweatingcobbles]

I know in the grand scheme of things this week it isn't a massive crisis but aibu to think it's stupid that in 29 degree weather today school refused to let the children take their fairly thick wool blazer off.
They said it is to maintain smartness and an office like uniform.
I'd rather kids could concentrate on learning and exams rather than feeling sick or ill.
Ironically I was in the office today with sandals and a short sleeve top.

coconuttella

Well, no, but I had to wear what they wanted me to wear if I wanted the job, didn't I?

coconuttella

I don't think I need you to "assure" me of anything, thanks. I was talking in general - suited and booted is the expectation in many firms when meeting clients. In companies I worked for, most people would remove the jacket for the meeting, but a suit jacket was part of the dress code. Same at most schools. The children can remove the blazers but they have to have them with them.

Obviously where you school your children is up to you.

The children can remove the blazers but they have to have them with them.

But the OP's issue is that pupils can't remove woollen blazers in class, not that all vestiges of uniform are abandoned! You seem to have supported that view up to this point, but now appear to have seen some sense on this.

coconuttella

I don't think I said anywhere that I think pupils should have to wear the blazers all the time. I have responded to some more general points.

Yes this thread needs to stick to the point that it's pupils not being allowed to remove blazers AT ANY POINT during the school day "because it's uniform" rather than common sense practice of putting on the back of a chair when in lesson.

My ds still gets teachers frequently telling him to tuck his shirt in despite having spd and reasonable adjustment is that he doesn't have to.
I just tell my ds not all teachers in school will be aware - only those who teach him and he has to politely tell teachers he has a RA made.

Sadly he still (due to asd and poor communication) just says "I don't have to" and wonders why he gets into trouble.

I'm reasonable enough to realise that actually there is no easy way around this. But once it's communicated then it shouldn't be an issue.

YADNBU. Dd is doing her GCSE's and they're still enforcing this in the heat! A kid fainted on Thursday so yesterday the kids ere permitted to take their blazers off in class - though still had to put them on the walk around school and at break

They also have to wear the school jumper at all times.

I think the most noticeable thing about the thread as a whole is the range of views on display about what is reasonable. Some people will be content with nothing less than removal of school uniforms, others think the uniform should be available to be worn but children should not have to wear one or another item, others think it is fine for them to wear jumpers but they shouldn't have to have a blazer, others think just a polo shirt etc.

Heads and governors can't please everyone. In a school with 1,000 plus children, they can consult the parent body and the children, but they can't make policies that cater to every preference. It isn't possible.

I had the pleasure of an email from a parent a little while ago (in response to an email that I had sent her about a request for an exception to be made for her child) that set out perfectly what I consider to be the problem. She said she didn't care about fairness. All she cared about was her own child. And I was tempted to reply to the effect that that was lovely, but I was the one making the decision and I didn't have the luxury of only having one child. I have thirty.

Yes, it is the continuous wearing of blazers which is clearly a more severe problem. Things, . That needs eacalating surely.

Escalating.

Trifle

Apologies. I seem to have selected read your posts.

The issue here isn't one of uniform, it's whether a jacket can be taken off in hot weather.... as far as I can see this thread is unanimous in its belief that enforcing the wearing of blazers at all times is unreasonable

That's very true trifle with regards to not pleasing everyone on what the uniform should be. Many love polo and v neck for secondary many think it's too casual!

But I'm not sure you'd come across any parent who would argue against children being allowed to remove whatever the outer garment in the dress code is because it's hot!

I actually think my old secondary had it right. We wore sky blue shirts with open neck (so not undone buttons!) and a grey knit v neck jumper which could be removed anytime we were hot! Boys wore saw colour shirt and tie with jumper but often didn't wear a tie the whole last half term as school would decide to just allow a total removal rather than daily decision. (This was before parent mail and text messages mind!)

Now it's an academy which insists on white shirts and ties for all and a blazer which students cannot remove at anytime from leaving the house in the morning to returning at the end of the day.

It's gone from being to the best school in area to having a terrible reputation now for miserable students and bullying that's ignored.

I believe that in general too many rules for the sake of rules creates battles that are fought instead of facing the real issues at hand.

coconuttella

That's alright. I definitely believe it is reasonable for blazers to be taken off in hot weather.

I believe that in general too many rules for the sake of rules creates battles that are fought instead of facing the real issues at hand.

Totally agree. And it undermines pupils' respect for the school too. They know if the school is imposing a rule for the sake of it as a means of exerting power and control rather than for any practical or welfare reason.

coconuttella

I think this is where many of the problems come from, to be honest. Everyone disagrees about what constitutes 'real issues', so Heads spend hour upon hour responding to individual parents, trying to justify why they have X rule or why Y rule needs to be properly enforced and no exceptions, etc. And by the time they have responded to every individual, and still people are unhappy, they have wasted a lot of time that could be better used to benefit the kids. I don't blame Heads for shutting down the discussions sometimes and just saying, "The decision has been made. This is not going to change." I understand how frustrating this must be to a parent who disagrees, but the bigger picture is surely worth consideration?

Trifle, I have more of a loose belief in rules (absolutely need them but think respect is earned by discussing them not mindlessly following them) but can definitely see that point and would publicly support it even if I privately disagreed with it. So that logic makes sense, thanks.

My line in the sand is health though and if students are fainting then that is (IMO and I think the opinion on this thread) ridiculous and unfair in exam season of all times. So I can understand why a head might need to shut most discussions down but I would lose all respect for them if they did not have the basic understanding (that my preschool child has) that if it is too hot you take a layer off.

Wonder what would happen if parents and students held their nerve and just all took blazers off...

I can't think of anything worse than being forced to wear too many layers in hot weather (sounds like an abusive form of control to me0 and personally I finding thinking very difficult if I am too hot.

I decided not to apply for a place at a leading boys' school for my DS when the master showing me round said proudly that the boys were required to wear their blazers (woollen) at all times. Seems like the wrong set of priorities to me.

Wonder what would happen if parents and students held their nerve and just all took blazers off.

Well, I know what would happen in a school I was leading. They would have to find a new Head. Probably an interim or acting Head, maybe someone worse at the job than me. Maybe better. Who knows? I couldn't continue in a role where the community had revealed so little respect, to be honest with you.

Well the HT in the school I referred to above finds time to write an 1000 word blog for the website every week. It's a standing joke amongst parents of the school and the wider community!
I think she'd be better off using her time more wisely.
And teachers would be better off spending time after the pupils leave school to plan lessons and learning opportunities rather than spending it trawling the streets to identify the pupils who've taken off blazers whilst walking 2 miles home in 30° heat to give them detention.

And I'm guessing by the staff turnover at the school the teachers agree

Well, I know what would happen in a school I was leading. They would have to find a new Head. Probably an interim or acting Head, maybe someone worse at the job than me. Maybe better. Who knows? I couldn't continue in a role where the community had revealed so little respect, to be honest with you.

The issue here is that respect is a two way street. "Leaders" who respect those that they lead generally receive more respect in return, and have an easier time imposing their will when it is necessary.

My experience (of continental, non-uniform schools) is that well-run schools tend to be those where staff genuinely care about the well-being of students, and where adults respect the right of adolescents to make their own decisions where appropriate (ie where it does not affect the smooth running of the school).

I find the idea of young adults being forced to wear inappropriate clothing for no good reason utterly inhumane. It's the sort of controlling behaviour practised in dictatorships and in badly run jails ...

Mistigri

I think that language is quite emotive and a bit exaggerated. Schools are institutions, institutions have (and need rules) and someone, somewhere will always disagree with a rule. Our Head is a very patient, kind, respectful man. A significant minority of the parent community at our school (I'm sorry to say) does not let up in questioning, challenging, undermining every decision, from where their children are sitting in class, to whether they are allowed to go to the toilet, to whether a detention should be issued after two lates or three, to whether students should be required to sit assessments, etc. It really is a massive waste of time and I think quite disrespectful.

My dd was in a hot stuffy classroom, asked if she could open the windows. Teacher replied (in her shorts and vest top) it's fine in here, no need to open the windows. Another case of teacher on a power trip.

whatsleep

Did you ask the teacher why she didn't want the windows open? I have several students (in secondary!) who, as soon as my back is turned, will launch whatever they can find out of the open, first storey window. I can't watch them for every second of the lesson without compromising learning. The windows stay closed.

trifle
You have a point on how much time is spent getting into discussions and dealing with people wanting to challenge all kinds of thing.

I've spent about 2 hours this week on one child because their mother doesn't feel it's fair that he was given a detention by a class teacher. Having followed the procedures I then got a phone call where the mother was incredibly rude to me, personally insulting and told me that is she doesn't give permission for her son to attend then that's it. Our leadership are great and backed me and and the class teacher.

I've then had another asking why I've put their child on uniform report for having black trainers on because 'the trainer bit is covered'. More time spent on the phone dealing with issues. All this is time that is taken away from actually teaching kids.

I don't think kids should be forced to have their blazers on when it's hot. But then I've never worked in a school where they are forced to swelter. They have to have their blazers in school though (so not shirt and hoody style jacket/thick winter jumper etc).

Most kids this week have benefits hot and taken blazers off. There are some however who have been complaining it's hot but also wearing a hoody instead of a coat and getting rude when we take it off them, or they are wearing the winter jumper and complaining it's too hot to work. That's not staff making them hot. It's students choosing.

What I see on this thread (and quite a few others) is how many people are very quick to argue that teachers are nasty bullies in power trips, that teachers treat children inhumanely etc.

MaisyPops

And then you think what you could have done in those two hours...