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Original poster

To wonder if there are supporters of grammar schools who didn't go to grammar schools themselves

849 replies

WildebeestH · 24/05/2017 14:57

Just that really. The only friends I have who support grammar schools went to grammar schools themselves. I'm intrigued to know if there are many people who support them having not been to a grammar (or other selective) school and if so why?

OP posts:
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10
Argeles · 24/05/2017 21:30

I fully support grammar schools, yet did not go to one myself. I have taught in Comprehensives, Academies and Grammar schools, and found my experiences in Grammar schools to be excellent.

I also strongly support setting by ability, and the use of differentiation and intervention for Gifted and Talented students in non-selective schools too. I say this, as in some schools even the core subjects are taught to mixed ability classes.

Witchend · 24/05/2017 21:33

DF is very pro grammars. He failed the 11+

InfiniteCurve · 24/05/2017 21:37

I'm against grammar schools - I went to a direct grant school which was the top tier of selection in Kent when I was growing up,so grammar equivalent. I loved my school but I didn't think it was a good or a fair system then,and I don't now.

AnneElliott · 24/05/2017 21:43

I went to a comprehensive and support grammars. My school was terrible- you had to hide you were clever, bullying was rife, riots took place often and a lot of the lessons involved crowd control.

I do wonder if people against selection went to a rough school like mine. I have come across some scepticism on mn as to whether my school could have been that bad. So I think some people just don't appreciate how shit some schools are.

And DS passed the 11+ but chose to go to a good comprehensive. Hopefully that works out for him.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 24/05/2017 21:59

"Parents who like grammars probably do for the same reason as private schooling. It's that sense of privilege and being "better" than others and not wanting their children to mix with "rough kids". That's my sense."

@believeitornot - we chose the grammar schools for ds1 and ds2 because we felt that they offered the best education for the boys, and suited them best. Their catchment comprehensive was not as good academically, and had discipline problems. And both ds1 and ds2 wanted to go to their respective grammar schools, because friends were going there and, in ds2's case, because it was a very sporty school, and he loves sport.

We chose the schools we thought would be the best for our children - isn't that what most parents do? Is it wrong to want the best possible education for your children?

I should say that we didn't get ds1 coached for the 11+ - our view was that, if he couldn't get in without being crammed for the exam, he wouldn't be able to cope once he was there. We did get ds2 coached - though, in hindsight, he didn't need it. His best friend was coached for the exam by his mum, using the Bond 11+ practice books, and he got in too. So it is possible to pass the 11+ without expensive coaching.

We offered the coaching to ds3, but he found it too much, on top of school (it was only once a week, but he fell behind on the homework and got too stressed), so we let him drop it, and offered help at home. He decided he'd do the exam, but was happy to go to the comprehensive, and again, we thought if he couldn't get in without lots of coaching, he wouldn't cope there.

As it turned out, we moved from Essex to Scotland when he was in Year 6, and we chose a house near a good comprehensive, whichnall three attended, and where they all did well, so the 11+ thing was moot in his case.

StillDrivingMeBonkers · 24/05/2017 22:05

Yes. I went to a secondary modern

I fully support the grammar system

cluelessnewmum · 24/05/2017 22:12

Me definitely. My parents came from very poor backgrounds, my dad in particular had a very difficult childhood. He went to a grammar school, and got in to Cambridge, which changed his life. We'll never know if he still would have if he had gone to a 'bog standard comprehensive', but the one I went to was terrible. It wasn't just crap academically but did nothing for my confidence (basically if you weren't a discipline problem you were ignored, most of my teachers didn't know my name).

There are no grammars round where I live at the moment so when my dc are secondary age I'll do anything to afford private education.

Atenco · 24/05/2017 22:19

I went to a Grammar school in the 60s and am against them. I've been out of the country for many years so I don't what has changed, but at the time the choice was pass the 11+ and get into grammar school, fail and go to an absolute sink school.

When there is such a shortage of money for schools in general, it seems immoral to earmark a large part of this scarce resource for small segment of secondary students

flyingwithwings · 24/05/2017 22:21

Yes. I went to a secondary modern

I fully support the grammar system

I am a fully paid up member of ' S.M.E.P.F G.S'

Secondary Modern Educated parents for grammar schools !

BertrandRussell · 24/05/2017 22:29

"we chose the grammar schools for ds1 and ds2 because we felt that they offered the best education for the boys"

But the whole point is that you do not choose a grammar school, it chooses you!

harderandharder2breathe · 24/05/2017 22:35

cantkeepaway that's good to hear! I don't think mixed ability is good for anyone and is increadibly difficult to teach. High achievers get bored and demotivated, middle achievers get ignored and demotivated, and low achievers fall behind and get demotivated.

MaQueen · 24/05/2017 22:41

I was privately educated, but DH went to a grammar (and he was dead set on our DDs going).

I wasn't fussed either way, until I worked as a TA/Cover Supervisor in comprehensives. After that experience I was adamant that our DDs would either go to a grammar, or go private.

Luckily, they both got into a girls' grammar and are both very happy and doing well Smile

I like the fact that their whole school is essentially one, big, 'top set'of high ability pupils.

Wineloffa · 24/05/2017 22:42

I went to a poor comp and hated it. I was bullied for being bright, not encouraged and definitely could have done so much better in a different environment surrounded by more motivated people. My dd goes to a good grammar school and absolutely loves it. We didn't tutor her to get her in, she's bright and got the marks herself. Our ds is very bright too and will hopefully follow her there in a couple of years.

Headofthehive55 · 24/05/2017 22:42

"Good" comps just aren't always that good though. you have to compare what there is - how it works in reality.
I am continually disappointed by the comp model, I've taught in several, children have had experience of several too. I really try not to be but living in an area that is entirely comp I'm not over enthralled.

Headofthehive55 · 24/05/2017 22:51

harder
Mixed ability teaching is alive here.

GrumbleBumble · 24/05/2017 22:55

Back in day when the option was grammar or secondary mod there was a 13+ which gave later bloomers the chance to switch to grammar. There was genuine social mobility because there wasn't super selection and pupils from non-grammar areas competing for a small number grammar places. The problem with the current system is the limited number of grammar places mean they are "bought" by wealthy parents hothousing their kids. If there were enough grammar places for all the children that are of an academic bent then poorer families would be able to access them. I went to crappy comp. in an area with grammars (we moved in to the area few weeks before I started senior school so I wasn't able to see if I was good enough for grammar) and hated it. I was bullied for being bright, I found the pace of learning too slow and no one ever tried to push/stretch me so I was bored. My husband is bright but not academic - he's much more practical/hands on he felt like a failure at school because it didn't suit him. He failed to pass a key subject GCSE at A-C despite sitting it three time. Many years down the line he resat and got an A* because he was focusing on that, taught by a great teacher and not trying to deal 8 other subjects. The comprehensive system didn't suit either of us. I'm not sure a "one size fits all" system can ever suit everyone.
Oh and my Dad failed his 11+ went to secondary mod. went on to have a very successful career and sent the younger siblings to grammar so yep you can fail the 11+ and be pro grammar.

flyingwithwings · 24/05/2017 23:02

In my experience it is those that failed their 11+ that are the most pro-selective education.

As i have posted previously i have 8 friends , all failed their 11+ every single one of them are ferociously pro grammar school.

Out of the 16 children between the 9 of us that took the 11+ 13 of them passed a success rate of 81% .

None of the parents have a 'degree' (except me via Open University) though only gained after both DDs went to grammar.

Bertrand will not acknowledge my personal observations , because it contradicts her belief that grammar schools are not open to children or families that don't fit a certain demographic !

BertrandRussell · 24/05/2017 23:17

"Bertrand will not acknowledge my personal observations , because it contradicts her belief that grammar schools are not open to children or families that don't fit a certain demographic "

You actually make my point. You did not get into grammar school but you are obviously intellignt and motivated so should have done, but you did not come from the background that children go to grammar school from. Your own children, because they had a motivated and intelligent mother who understood the system did.

I will say what I always say on threads like this. I live in a wholly selective area and we have two schools, one grammar, one not, covering the same catchment. The secondary modern school has 37% FSM. The grammar school has 0% FSM. I don't honestly see how anyone can support selective education once they know that simple stat.

38cody · 24/05/2017 23:41

Yes I'm totally in support of grammar schools. I went to a comp.
Children learn best if they are streamed so the teaching fits their needs and they can keep moving steadily on to the next level rather than being bored or being left behind.
There are lots and lots of provisions made in schools for the less able but very little for the more able - usually nothing. There was a gifted and talented policy but it was generally poorly executed and tokenistic.
I believe that ther should be multiple entry points however, at 11 and 13 rather than just 11, to scoop up late developers.

W00t · 25/05/2017 00:06

Bertrand- our grammars are different, in that there are only a few, and are ss. However, they do take a whole class each year (1/5) of pupils eligible for PP, and those children have a lower score on the entrance exam to qualify for a place. A step in the right direction.

GrumbleBumble · 25/05/2017 00:12

Bertrand that a fault in how selection is made (by a coachable test) rather than in the concept on selection. My very working class Dad went to secondary mod but three of his siblings went to grammar. My mum was comparatively middle class. (policemans daighter) but got the school bus to the grammar 15 miles away with the coal delivery mans daughter, the postmans daughter, various shop workers kids and tenant farmers kids. There was no class/wealth devide to grammars in the 60s.

Karatecas · 25/05/2017 00:16

Bertrand - What is FSM please?

Sorry, I'm a grammar school supporter. I went to a secondary modern and so did DS1. We both did our 'A' levels at Grammars. He wished he'd always been at the Grammar as he was bullied from Yr7 to Yr9. (He thumped the ringleader at the end of Yr9 and that stopped it). DH and DS2 both went to Grammar and although neither did particularly well (they both admit it was their own fault) both have succeeded in their chosen career. It was the Grammar that picked up DS2 was dyslexic and tested DS1 once he arrived there so he was able to have the extra exam time he was never allowed at secondary school. DH will be the only one of us without a degree (I'm just finishing mine) and DS2 will complete his second soon.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 25/05/2017 00:20

FSM = Free School Meals.

moutonfou · 25/05/2017 00:28

I'm the opposite in that I went to a grammar and not sure I support them.

In my view, it's not about intelligence, it's about attitude to learning. In my grammar school there were still kids who didn't want to be there and spoiled it for the rest of us. Whereas as a teacher I have known kids with learning disabilities who just want to learn and are such a pleasure to teach.

I personally think we need different classes for the kids who want to learn and the kids who don't, and a very different approach for each.

38cody · 25/05/2017 00:52

I personally think we need different classes for the kids who want to learn and the kids who don't, and a very different approach for each.

Now THAT would work! Try telling the parents of group 2 which group they are in though!