Health disclosure to work in secondary school

[Creamdonuts]

Invited to an interview for a post in a secondary school
It's for a receptionist position in a private school
Looking at this does it mean they want all my GP notes?
Leaves me slightly concerned as when I was a late teenager my mother passed away and at the hospital I threatened suicide and needed a physciatrist report and some counselling although counselling was arranged through work not GP.
Will this show up even though I'm now in my 40s?

You don't have to declare any medical conditions and you don't have to give them consent to access your medical records. If you don't want them to make "reasonable adjustments", I can't see any advantages to declaring medical conditions, only disadvantages..

Roomster101 that's absolutely not true. If you are appointed you a role subject to medical clearance and you are asked if you have any history of a medical condition and you say no when in fact the answer is yes or could reasonably be held that you should have known that the answer should have been yes, then you have got that job dishonestly. If it was later found out that you had done so, that dishonesty could be held as gross misconduct, even if the condition itself would not have prevented the appointment, especially where integrity and honesty are essential characteristics for a role.

lougle How would they find out though? I'd rather not give employers the opportunity to discriminate against me (I know they are not legally allowed to but it still happens and is hard to prove).

Well apart from that little thing called personal integrity.....

Occupational health departments tend to ask to contact your GP if you get referred to them with a condition and GPs tend to refer to the last time you had that same condition or a similar condition or whatever....you just never know what will come up.

If you've declared everything you have nothing to hide.

Occupational health departments tend to ask to contact your GP if you get referred to them with a condition and GPs tend to refer to the last time you had that same condition or a similar condition or whatever....you just never know what will come up.

Well I've never seen occupational health in the 25 years I've had my medical condition and there is absolutely no reason I would be.

If you've declared everything you have nothing to hide.

No, but you might not get the job in the first place.

No, but you might not get the job in the first place.

Why wouldn't the op get the job? They don't need any adjustments for interview and the occupational health clearance only kicks in after they've been offered it.

If asked I'd put 'as a teenager my mother passed away and I undertook some counselling at the time'

How would they find out though?
Exactly. How would they find out? Tick 'no'. If they ask to contact your GP just tell them you aren't registered.

where integrity and honesty are essential characteristics for a role.
Then the employer shouldn't be asking for information that is not applicable to the role. Integrity and honesty have to work both ways.

Of course it's relevant to the role! All they are establishing is that the applicant is fit to work in the role they have applied for. If somebody was employed to work in a year R class and then couldn't join in with any of the activities because they had a terrible back complaint and couldn't bend down, couldn't help any of the children change after PE, couldn't put any equipment away, etc., they wouldn't be any use in a year R class, would they? If the school hadn't done their OH checks it would be their own fault. By doing their OH checks they could say either 'this role needs a lot of bending, kneeling, etc., and that won't work with a bad back, so unfortunately it won't be suitable' or 'we had intended you to work in yrR, but as you have a back condition it isn't really suitable. However, Mrs X is willing to swap out of year 4 and work in year R, so we can offer you a year 4 place.'

Also, there will be people who apply for these roles who are too unstable mentally to be safe to work with children, and it is vital that those people are not allowed to work with children while that is found out. Most people with mental health history or conditions are perfectly safe and stable, but the few who are not have to be excluded from working with children before they have contact with them, and that is where Occ. Health plays a vital role.

Perhaps they should state what conditions would preclude people from working there, and potential recruits could make informed decisions about whether they would apply for the job in the first place

That's just ridiculous

That's just ridiculous
Why? Would save people wasting their time

Sorry, I should qualify that. It would be too hard to categorically state that, because each condition can be so varied and each person would experience it so differently. For example, 'asthma' - on most forms would pass through without comment. Asthma requiring steroid inhalers may give a pause to see if any extra hospital appointments had been had. Asthma with 3 A&E admissions in the last year and 'needs occasional nebulisers' might make them think about environmental triggers. 'Brittle asthmatic, often triggered by changes in air quality, sensitive to dust, etc.' is going to make the hairs on their neck stand up. But you couldn't say 'Asthma will trigger a referral to OH' any more than you could say 'Asthma will be ok'.

There's a lot of confusion around this topic. I work in OH. Everynew starter completes a medical questionnaire. The contents of this questionnaire is reviewed by the OH nurse.

If you tick yes to something on the questionnaire, the nurse will contact you to discuss. She will not disclose any of your health conditions to your employer without your consent. In most cases, you will be declared fit with no comment, or with a note saying that a medical condition has been declared but it well controlled.

Whilst we routinely ask for GP contact details to speed up the process if required, we only write to the GP for further information in about 2% of cases. When a report is returned, we do not inform your employer of any further information without your consent.

All of this is to determine reasonable adjustments and ensure you are safe in your role. In the whole time I have worked in OH (several years), I have only seen 2 declarations that the employee is not medically fit (though to be clear - employers need to provide reasonable adjustments that are sustainable and fit within business needs).

You can obviously lie on your questionnaire, but it absolutely is not in your best interest to do so. I do know of a role where someone lied, adjustments hadn't been put in place, they ended up injuring themselves and also lost their job. If they'd be honest, alternative duties may have be found.

Perhaps they should state what conditions would preclude people from working there, and potential recruits could make informed decisions about whether they would apply for the job in the first place

There aren't set conditions that would prevent people from applying for certain roles (and I'd be interest to see how that would adhere to the Equalities Act 2010).

Someone having intermittent back pain may be able to do alternate duties in a physical role. Someone with chronic back pain may not be able to - but then we'd have to know exactly what type of 'back pain' condition they have, and that list would be very open to discrimination.

The way the medical questionnaires work is absolutely fine. All information remains confidential and cannot be shared without your consent anyway, so I don't see the issue.

Why wouldn't the op get the job? They don't need any adjustments for interview and the occupational health clearance only kicks in after they've been offered it.

I'm not talking OP's situation as I doubt that her history would effect her chances of employment. That isn't always the case though and it is naive to assume otherwise.

You can obviously lie on your questionnaire, but it absolutely is not in your best interest to do so. I do know of a role where someone lied, adjustments hadn't been put in place, they ended up injuring themselves and also lost their job. If they'd be honest, alternative duties may have be found.

But if you don't need adjustments to be put in place or alternative duties then there is no advantage to disclosing medical information. I'm not advising OP on what they should or shouldn't do but I really don't think Iack integrety (as suggested by a previous poster) because I want to keep details of my medical condition to myself. As far as I'm concerned it doesn't effect my job and it is nobody else's business.

I agree with roomster101 in that if there are certain conditions ( mental health related once ) that mean it's not safe to work with children, this should have been discussed at interview therefore a choice is then given to the person applying, whether they know they won't pass the medical clearance needed or know that if they do, they will still need to inform them about it.
Just to give the job and then start this seems massively unfair.
They inform you about needing a DBS check and not being on the barred list so why not mention this too??

They inform you about needing a DBS check and not being on the barred list so why not mention this too??

It's right there in the excerpt you posted above. Offer of employment is subject to dbs and medical clearance.

How much clearer can subject to medical clearance be? I can understand that it may make you anxious. I feel anxious every time I fill in an OH form because I have to declare my childhood psychologist attendance, my childhood diagnosis of exercise induced asthma, my two episodes of chronic fatigue syndrome and my chronic migraines - makes me sound like a real catch, hey? But I still pass the OH screening procedure every time for demanding 12 hour shift work in busy hospital environments. As it happens, I'm now finding that nights aren't a good fit with my migraines, and I'm getting a lot of viruses, possibly because I have a tendency to get run down. Because I declared my previous Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and my migraines I was able to go to Occ. Health and discuss it, and they have suggested that a period off nights may be beneficial to see if my health improves. My managers are happy to try this, even though my area is usually 50/50 days/nights, because they've had Occ Health recommendation that it may help and they'd rather have me well and at work.

Whilst we routinely ask for GP contact details to speed up the process if required, we only write to the GP for further information in about 2% of cases.
In which case you shouldn't be routinely asking for GP details. You should only ask for them if you have a specific need to contact them, and then they can be supplied at the same time as the consent to contact the GP is supplied. Just because HCPs have a duty of confidentiality, doesn't mean they have a right to harvest information from people for no reason.

I agree with roomster101 in that if there are certain conditions ( mental health related once ) that mean it's not safe to work with children, this should have been discussed at interview therefore a choice is then given to the person applying, whether they know they won't pass the medical clearance
That's not something that should be discussed at interview, as the interviewers won't be medically trained so won't know if it will affect your employment or not.

The way the medical questionnaires work is absolutely fine. All information remains confidential and cannot be shared without your consent anyway, so I don't see the issue.
Because a lot of the information they ask for is irrelevant. Just because HCPs have a duty of confidentiality, doesn't mean they have a right to harvest information from people for no reason.
It should be up to the person involved, making an informed choice, as to what information they provide. If that means they don't disclose something, and they have a load of time off sick when adjustments could have been made, then so be it.

lougle It may have been to your benefit to declare illnesses on a screening form but that doesn't mean it will benefit everyone. Some employers will not employ people with certain medical conditions because they do not want the hassle of making reasonable adjustments (they may assume the person needs them whether or not they do) and they may perceive that person will often be absent due to sickness. It is naive to think that doesn't happen.
As I said, I haven't declared my medical condition in the past because I do not require adjustments and I don't want an employer to think I do or that I will take a lot of sickness leave. I don't think that means I lack integrety. I think it means I am not naive about discrimination.