To be shocked by plan to disenfranchise the poor.

[Fab39ish]

Just seen a report on my facebook feed which suggests that the Government want to make it compulsory to provide photo ID to vote.
What happens to people who don't drive or have a passport?
Is there a national cheap photo ID card you can buy. But even so if you are poor maybe you won't be able to afford that?

If it's a free ID card I don't see how it's disenfranchising the poor. Voter fraud is an issue. For those of us who do have passport or driving licence, do you fear holding that? If this is enable people to vote in a system where fraud is reduced what's the issue?

The problem is that the government have no plans to issue such cards. Assuming we can below the Independent and The Guardian.

They'll never get it through unless they have a free alternative.

Even in Northern Ireland they recognised that.

Total non-story.

If you needed to you could get a provisional driving license for £34 without having to actually drive. It's cheaper than a passport at least.

(There should be a free alternative though)

Yes, it would ultimately cost the taxpayer, Lurking, but presumably you know what I meant. At least those on very low incomes would not be prevented from voting by the cost of acquiring one.

Only if people like me are willing to pay for them. I suspect you'll find a lot of people aren't.

And regardless of the initial cost, as I asked upthread what about lost/stolen ? If my memory is correct, last time ID cards were floated, the proposals were very quiet on that - at the time a lot of people spotted that you might get your first free, but be responsible for the replacement cost - with no help.

I despair at the number of people whose answer to valid points is just "oh they won't do that." based on the square root of fuck all.

My attitude is they will do that - even when they say they won't.

"Oh, they'd never make a woman fill in a form to say she was raped just to claim child benefit" was the last time I had that discussion. Only they did

Just that last fact alone makes them capable of anything ... in fact disenfranchising the poor is probably less shocking. At least it's not blatantly targeting women.

Don't know about the rest of the UK but in N Ireland a provisional driving license isn't acceptable ID, only a full license. Don't know why that is though.

Yrs treacle in my old job provisional driving licences weren't acceptable ID either.

This already happens in other countries.

I guess it is to stop another Tower Hamlets situation again. Which is why I think there should/ could be more tightening of postal voting.

If you needed to you could get a provisional driving license for £34 without having to actually drive. It's cheaper than a passport at least - no you can't - in my ds2's case. He can't see well enough to swear the eyesight declaration. He'll never be able to get a driving licence.

Governmental Photo ID would be great. I have the feeling though that the idea was quietly droppped a few years ago, due to 'civil rights' or 'big brother' issues...

Yes I am sure many people thought they wouldn't bring in loads of the policies they have.

mychilddoesntlookdisabled the manifesto doesn't define the form of identification required, but it has been widely reported in news outlets that it must be a UK passport or driving licence and that there will be no free voter ID card as there are in NI.

It's stupid and disheartening, and is definitely a cynical way of disenfranchising people unlikely to vote Tory. It is a complete non-problem.

If you are going to insist on photo ID for the exercise of basic rights then you need to have a national discussion about mandatory ID cards first and win it, then introduce said ID cards in a way which makes them accessible and affordable to all.

The UK has a long tradition of opposing mandatory ID and ID checks for many reasons. We're already rolling back a bit with mumblings about requiring photo ID for hospital treatment, but this is much worse.

The evidence from another part of the UK that has a requirement for photo id on voting is that there will be provision made for a free electoral card which can be used as ID to vote.

There is no evidence that similar won't be brought in in the rest of the UK if that policy in the manifesto means photographic ID (which it doesn't say)

I am not a tory voter by the way.

But a "free" card , if it involves supplying a photo from photo booth thing, is not entirely free.

If you're really poor, minimum benefits poor,
Or you would have to travel to a higher town to find a photo booth
Or, you have extremely restricted mobility,
Or, you have issues that mean getting the photo, filling in the form, supplying some other ID(which most forms require)doing these things sufficiently far in advance, then registering to vote(already less easy than it used to be)

Top of my head I can think of half a dozen people I know, for whom these thing would be difficult enough that they'd likely be defeated .

I suspect that it's a hugely disenfranchising measure, to crack a barely existing but.

But, because those in politics and the media can't imagine what it's like to be really poor, heat or eat poor, or disabled, or have mental health problems, well, not really affecting people like us, so no problem, eh?

You're right mychilsdoesntlookdisabled in that the Tories have not explicitly ruled out introducing a free voter ID card, but having looked at their policies and drive to cut spending, would you honestly bet on them allocating several million pounds to fund that?

New Statesman blog here about how pointless this is.

Just get a provisional licence- they last a decade.

BeepBeep They're 34 quid on line, that's a weeks shopping for me and dd. As I said, I'm lucky enough to have a licence but others aren't.

Yes beep that would be fine if you have almost quid to spare and if you could guarantee it would be acceptable ID. No-one really knows if it will. Not very likely if your are surviving on jsa.

BeepBeepMOVE as PP have mentioned, you can't get a provisional licence if you don't meet the medical requirements for a licence.

Of course it's acceptable ID, it's what I've used for 7 years.

You really can't save £34 over a year or so? That's like 2/3 hours of cleaning/ babysitting work, not exactly hard to come by.

altered
Sorry I was unaware of this. My mother is currently unable to drive due to medical reasons but has a provisional- I guess each case is different.

If you are in jsa they dock your money if you earn more than a small amount. So yes quite hard.

Any why should a person struggling have to do this to vote.

Well earn more and get off jsa?

What about postal vote?

If an adult can't manage to save even £34 then I'm not convinced they're in a position to make good decisions anyway.

You really can't save £34 over a year or so? That's like 2/3 hours of cleaning/ babysitting work, not exactly hard to come by.

Disabled? On benefits? Yup its hard to come by