More wwyd - 4 day old baby and breastfeeding?

[sailorcherries]

My DS is 4 days old today and has been bottle fed since the hospital. I tried to bf for 4 straight hours after my elective c-section, however nothing, and I mean nothing, came out either breast (not even when trying to hand express). My poor baby was starving and the bottle helped.
He had a great latch though, despite my issues.

He ate 2oz every 3-4 hours and was brilliant from the get-go.

I did want to breastfeed and although slightly down in the hospital about it, I knew it was best to bottle feed as I had nothing to offer.

First day back home, bottle fed and he stuck to the hospital routine, absolute dream baby.

Yesterday my boobs exploded and I decided to attempt to bf at his 6pm bottle feed. He happily fed for 40 minutes and then fell asleep. He woke up an hour and a half later but wouldn't go for the boob and then only took 1oz of formula.
This then affected his 10pm and 2am feed. He became inconsolable and wouldn't latch at all, he ended up taking 2oz at 10, 2oz at 12 and 2oz at 2 before sleeping through until half 6. Both OH and I were frazzled, DS was upset and it was so completely unpleasant.

When he woke this morning he fed for 40 minutes with a great latch, nodded off and only woke up at half 10 (a good 2.5-3 hour sleep).
We then decided to bath him, change him and then I settled down to feed. He fed for over an hour from one breast before coming off, he still had his hungry cues so I tried the other breast as he refused to relatch to the original. 20 minutes later he still hadn't latched and was becoming increasingly agitated, so OH made a bottle and he happily took 1oz before sleeping.
By this point he had been up for almost 2.5 hours and finally seemed content.

Is it too late for me to try and replace bottles with breast?
Am I only going to manage one or two good bf feeds a day?
Am I doing him any harm in combination feeding just now?
Should I lose the bfing as he was content with the bottle, had a routine of sorts, and now I've put it out of whack?

I know breast is best, however I also know a happy mum is the most important thing as long as baby is being fed.
In the hospital I was too overwhelmed to think properly but since being home I've almost been in tears from feeling like a failure over not breastfeeding (as I wanted to), to being accepting of our routine to being upset over breastfeeding again to being upset over feeling like I've confused and broken my baby with these mixed signals.

La leche League has, or did have a support network that would call you if you needed them. Or it may have been another breastfeeding group. Sorry that wasn't really that useful! Anyhow my advice would be to get support from a local group or at least speak to your hv and say you are determined to bf now and see how they can give you advice and help. I struggled with ds but with both dd's was a walk in the park. So different. Loads of skin on skin and constant offering via boob will really help. Hope you get on okay!

Echoing PP when my milk came in DS1 suddenly wouldn't feed for hours and hours and was v upset. I rang helplines in a panic but my midwife eventually came, slapped hot flannels on my boobs and expressed. Turned out they were too full for a latch and once they were softer he happily went back on.

Happened with DS2 but I knew what to do this time and when a relative rang with same panic I explained what happened to me and she expressed and it solved the issue. I fed both on demand and DS 1 was 90 mins - 2 hours between feeds and DS2 was much more variable. I had a spreadsheet at the beginning with DS1 (I am that way inclined) but it soon got deleted and I went with the flow (pun intended!)

I know other people have replied in a similar way but it does sound like you are expecting him to follow a bottle feeding schedule when breastfeeding but babies will feed differently when breastfeeding, usually more often at first and on demand. It all sounds fine but if you want to breastfeed i would try and stop yourself from offering him a bottle. You sound like you have enough milk now so he won't starve.

I don't particularly know any good websites but would really recommend joining a breastfeeding group they are called 'baby brasseries' round here. Your midwife should be able to recommend some. I found having other breastfeeding friends really helped me when i had any worries as i could chat with them and usually they had a similar experience to me and it made me feel better.

Congratulations by the way. You sound like you are doing a brilliant job

PS I remember sobbing in hospital as person after person tried to get DS1 to latch so if your LO has got that sussed then you are halfway there!

Hi i had an emergency c section and crashed during birth so my milk also took time to come in. My dd started on bottles but when milk came in i bf her as well. We did mixed feeding. When your breasts are too engorged its hard for baby to latch. I found a hot flannel worked to soften them.

Where are you based? nct runs a 24 hour helpline so you could try them?

It is completely possible to get baby onto the breast but you might need to pump to keep your supply up through the transition.

Ds was born by emcs, he had low blood sugar and was being fed formula through a tube before I made it out of recovery.

It took a week or so to get him to latch on at all as he wasn't well. I was in hospital still so had a double pump. I was trying to feed Ds, topping him up with formula/expressed bm then pumping, every three hours 24 hours a day. He eventually got the hang of the breast and is still breastfeeding now at 11 months. He hasn't had any formula since about day 8 so you can get there but I'd really try and get some real life support.

Good luck op and congratulations!

I just want to add that you wouldn't expect a routine at 4days breast or bottle so the routine you had may have just been a fluke. Regardless of what feeding method you use you will find you take a few weeks at least before his sleep/feed pattern settles and this is normal so if you breastfeed don't let people blame breastfeeding. I breastfed both mine and by about 8 weeks they slept quite well and were feeding every 2-3 hrs in the day and up twice in the night for feeds. That's pretty good for an eight week old so breastfeeding didn't prevent a routine of sorts.

I really struggled for the first month with ds1. The first week I cup fed him with a small plastic cup about the size of a bottle lid that the midwives gave me.
I would give him a small amount, try him with the breast and finish with the cup if he was still hungry.
Nipple shields helped me as well as they encouraged ds1 to latch on.

If you want to breast feed him then patience, perseverance, blood, sweat and tears may well all happen and routines go out of the window. If it gets too upsetting for either of you it is absolutely ok to bottle feed. Baby won't remember how he was fed when he's older.

Nothing useful to add, but I did want to lend some support because breastfeeding can be incredibly hard (4 DCs here and a huge amount of effort needed every time). Keep at it,if that's what you want, get Lansinoh cream for your nipples. And good luck.

The group I mentioned up thread were just called breastfeeding network. They do home visits in this area, also run groups and the woman who did my home visit also used to go to the local baby clinic so I could see her there and ask advice. Your midwife is likely to know about any local groups. And yes to everyone saying not to expect a routine. As soon as they fall into one, it changes anway! I expressed every three hours whilst expressing, I think that started off as every two, whenever he wanted a feed to try to copy the times he wanted to feed so my production matched up, iyswim. He went through a period of feeding for 8 hours solid every day for a few weeks. It constantly changes so don't worry about timings and routine. Offer it if he hasn't fed for a couple of hours.

Thanks everyone.
I tried for almost an hour to breastfeed when DS woke earlier, with no avail. He didn't even latch once.
In the end OH brought in a bottle because poor DS was distraught and there was no hope in hell of getting him to latch at that point, and I was also getting too upset.
Poor DS guzzled it all, so he was obviously hungry.

OH is fully supportive of me trying to breastfeed but is a firm believer of "happy baby means a happy mum" regardless how the baby is fed. He doesn't want me to pressurise myself and definitely doesn't want me to become depressed over this.

He has suggested trying to bf but boiling the kettle just as I try to feed DS, so that if DS doesn't take and becomes distressed then a bottle can be made up and cooled quickly. It gives me about 30 minutes to try and get him latched and settled, which I've agreed is probably a happy medium as leaving DS to go any longer before feeding is making me feel like shit.

My midwife is back tomorrow so I'm hoping she'll be able to help me.

Yes, do you have any other family /friends around that could help either?

Breastfeeding can be difficult to establish even without the c section and bottle etc - you are doing a great job. There are a few helplines eg www.nationalbreastfeedinghelpline.org.uk
There's also an nct one. Health visitor may or may not be any help.this may sound odd but you could also keep an eye on what you eat as it changes the flavour of your milk a lot (I didn't drink obvs but did taste sometimes to check it) - during my post birth tiramisu binge, my milk tasted like white chocolate, but after curry it was gross (and gave him tummy ache).

Good luck and keep trying both. Bf will get so much easier, and as long as he takes some each day it keepa your options open. Lots of skin to skin etc.

Milk doesn't tend to come in straight away and can take a few days. For anyone about to have a baby reading this, you'll know they're getting some milk when you can see it on their lips. The colostrum often comes out in tiny drops so often not noticeable.

OP. You can still breast feed and there is nothing wrong with combi feeding but your DS will find it easier to get milk out of a bottle so will get frustrated on the boob when he's really hungry and has to work at it.
But also forget about the 2 / 4 hour feeding windows. Firstly breast feeding is on demand so if he has a full boob he'll be hungry at different times to than if he has a full bottle which is more then likely why your 'schedule' is out of sync as secondly formula fills him up more.
As a PP mentioned, when your boob is really hard and full it can be difficult for them to latch on, I'd suggest starting a new day without the bottle, just offer your baby the boob whenever he murmurs or roots. Don't forget he may just he 'thirsty' so just wants a little drink rather than a full feed sometimes.

Also in the early days I found that when my baby was struggling to latch if I lightly jiggled my arm her head was on it stopped her fussing and she settled down for a feed. I think it sort of distracted her enough to latch without concentrating IYKWIM?

And she also preferred one boob (left) over the other (right) so I always feed her on the right first and then switch to the left every time.

I know your partner is probably just trying to help but it's your body and your decision. You have used the "happy baby happy mum" phrase twice in posts so make sure you make the decision about breast versus bottle and you are happy with it. The midwife will help you with latching on. Hope it goes well tomorrow. If you want to breaatfeed please do persevere.

I enjoyed morning and late evening breast feed and bottle fed the rest from about 3 weeks. It's a really practical alternative. Means everyone can feed, sleep etc. For me it's the best of all possible options.

You sound like you're doing great! I would echo the posters suggesting you express if offering the bottle. That way you are building your supply. What you can do is:

• try bfing. If baby latches and is swallowing milk then keep bfing, don't offer a bottle.
• if, after 30 mins as you've agreed, baby doesn't latch and is getting upset, then bottle feed.
• After bottle feeding, then express (i hired an electric hospital grade pump) and keep the expressed milk in a bottle. Bf keeps at room temp for 6 hours, so just leave it at room temp and use it for the next bottle feed, if there is one.
• Keep an eye on wet and dirty nappies and if there are enough of these , then baby is getting enough.
• forget feeding intervals. Just feed feed feed for as long as baby will have it.

Good luck!

I really really can't say enough that you should find your closest children's centre or surestart centre on google and ring them and ask when the breastfeeding support group is and get yourselves there! Out of a friendship group of 5 women only 1 of us is still successfully breastfeeding now at 11months old little ones...the only one of us who goes to breastfeeding support group every week! We 4 all gave up at varying ages but none lasted longer than a month!

This sounds exactly like how my nf journey started both times, and by 6 weeks we dropped bottles entirely both times too. I had a bit of help from a lactation consultant. The Kellymom website is excellent. I also had an emcs first time and my milk took forever to come in. I used fenugreek to support milk production (ask a lactation consultant on you HV about fenugreek, it has some scientific research behind it, but is complementary medicine). Oats, (non-alcoholic) beer and plenty of rest is also good. Let your body do its thing, while supporting the baby with formula if needed. I always offered breast first, then pumped to increase supply while my husband gave ours a bottle. Pumping is miserable. I felt like a dairy heifer, but, all temporary and it's easy once you get bf established. Good luck!

If you do want to express, ask your midwife about borrowing a pump. I was given a hospital grade double pump for free by my local sure start centre. They even brought it to me and then the breastfeeding network woman showed me how to use it all properly and set up a pumping schedule to keep up with demand and get a bit of a routine going. They were honestly brilliant and I wouldn't have managed to breastfeed without them. There is so much more help available these days and it's great to get advice online, but so useful to have somebody with you in real life who can see and advise. Also helped calm me down and believe I could cope when I'd been doubting it previously.