To dislike being called a trouble maker

[duckintrouble]

NC for this as very outing.

I am a resident of a new build on a development.
Myself and my husband bought this house in March 16. At the time we were sold we were told that no new build properties in our council were being sold as freehold and assured that the development would not be selling the leaseholds on our property, as they had to be given back to the council after a set period of time, giving us some security.

we bought and just over a year later the leaseholds have been sold to a private company who is requesting hundreds of pounds just to apply for a price so we can buy our land,

we used the solicitors recommended by the developers, who have seemingly forgot to mention these huge clauses within our purchases.
From building an extension would cost us thousands of pounds for approval, to what animals we can have in our home, to charging us for application and permission to change our carpets, door handles, light fittings etc. insisting we decorate at specific times during our lease. They are not responsible for any maintenance of the grounds of pipe work.

There is a clause in the lease that says they can force entry if we are late on our ground rent or if we break any of the 32 pages of regulations (although written notice is required from LL). I have been advised that this is just a scare tactic, but from my own knowledge if it's written into the lease then surely its enforceable?

They refer to themselves as our landlord which I know they technically are (but it still irks me), it doesn't matter myself and my husband spent 130K for the property and our land was sold on for between 5-7k they in effect can tell us how to live our lives.

This has made our house virtually unsaleable as mortgage companies are starting to refuse mortgages on these grounds

The developers as a company have lied at every stage of our application changing plans after we had already placed 100s into the process,

We have lived on a building site for more then a year with no regard shown for our standard of living from heavy ground work at 7am to blocking my car in at least 10 times even after I have explained I have a disabled child and need to be able to get in and out of my property at all times.(I know this bit is illegal)

Legally required checks have not been carried out, and the building is of such poor quality that many owners have had to spend 1000s just to get them up to a livable standard.

they broke the legal terms the day we moved in by having a telephone pole blocking all residents access for 6 weeks, I should have known then but realistically it was already too late.

So myself and my neighbours have been scrambling around trying to nail down the details of this and how to take the next steps, so leaflets have gone round and we are having a meeting with the council (who also had no idea this was happening and didnt grant approval for the houses to be sold in these terms, they now have a legal team working on it themselves)

so a lady who had just completed on her house went up to the sales office and tried to ask for some further clarity (as she had been told the same lies as us), they refused to discuss the matter with her.
She mentioned she would come and see me instead and the sales agents response was
"she is a trouble maker"

I find this rather insulting as all I have done is offer the residence the guidance we should have been given in the first place, so AIBU (please be gentle, I have had about 2 hours sleep in the past..... god knows)

Maybe worth suggesting to the council that they could take stand too and announce that they will not be giving planning permission to any more houses that are going to be leasehold. One thing to have an communal charge or something that you pay £100 tops for a year for local maintenance and amenities - completely a different matter to be leasehold and profiteer from people wanting to change their door handles or put in an extension and so on!

Have just looked to see if I could see the programme I was thinking of and came up with these:

www.theguardian.com/money/2016/oct/29/new-builds-house-buyers-leasehold-property-trap

www.insidehousing.co.uk/debate/the-trouble-with-leasehold/7019642.blog#

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38827661

There is a clause in the lease that says they can force entry if we are late on our ground rent or if we break any of the 32 pages of regulations (although written notice is required from LL).

I'd be bloody surprised if that's enforcable! It's outrageous. This is what my HA lease says under The Associations Obligations:

'The Association Agrees
2:1 POSSESSION - To give the tenant possession of the Premises at the commencement of the Tenancy.
2:2 Not to interrupt or interfere with the Tenant's right peacefully to occupy the Premises except where:
(i) Access is required subject to reasonable notice, to inspect the condition of the Premises or to carry out repairs or other works to the Premises or Adjoining Property:, or
(ii) A Court has given the Association possession by ending the Tenancy; or
(iii) The Association is entitled to possession at the end of the Tenancy.

Apart from repairs and an annual gas check I don't hear a thing from anyone. It does say in the tenancy that 'immediate access may be required in an emergency (ie if you were away and the place was flooding etc) . We aren't told when to decorate and don't need permission to make minor changes to the premises but do need permission for anything bigger such as knocking rooms through etc.

It honestly looks like we get a fairer deal as flipping tenants than this developer is offering you as home owners. Not on.

mine states
The Landlord may re-enter the property(or any part of the property in the name of the whole) at any time after any of the following occurs

1. any ground rent due under this lease is wholly or partly unpaid 21 days after becoming payable
2. any breech of any of the tenant covenants PROVIDED ALWAYS that he right of re entry herein contained shall not become excisable unless specifying the breech or breeches is first served.

irony is because the contract doesn't fully stipulate what it means by written approval for interior non structural changes (for which we have to pay an application fee, admin fee, costs to landlord and approval fee) we don't know if we have to apply for permission to redecorate every 4 years or get fined if we don't. Either way someone got a bargain on managing to have more of a say about my house then I do and they get paid for the privilege

• sigh why didn't i go with an older quirky house that had character

They're trying it on OP, as I said . But lots of landlords pull this rubbish and most tenants go along with it because they believe they are bound by a "legal" document they signed. They're not, because the law of the land trumps the law of some greedy, unreasonable landlord making up a lease in his spare time. However, I didn't know this kind of stunt happened with mortgaged-lessees.

However, the general picture is a bit disturbing. I think you should get a consultation with a good solicitor for some advice, before you decide what to do. You don't necessarily have to engage their services after the advice*, but you will know more where you stand. You could even get the group of lessees to share the cost of this!

It may cost you some money up front to do this, but then you will know your position clearly, hopefully, and who knows, even be able to recoup some money for the damage and shoddy workmanship.

*You would have to be clear and carefully weigh up the possible gains with losses of doing this. Solicitors can be expensive.

I know it's a bad time what with the elections coming up but I'd make an appointment at your local MPs next available surgery. It's amazing what a letter or two on portcullis headed notepaper can achieve sometimes!

And I agree they're bloody pushing their luck with some of the terms of the lease. It sounds deliberately vague in parts from the bits you've mentioned and downright deceptive in others. Is there some sort of ombudsman service that regulates developers? If so, I'd involve them. The more free input you can get the better as yy solicitors can be £££.

This sounds serious so ask a lawyer not a bunch of randoms on the internet. Yes you will have to pay the lawyer, but the advice you get on mumsnet will be worth what you pay for it.

I've just been on the phone to a highly recommended solicitor who is going to look over the lease for me, she is also very eager to see the conveyancing file when it arrives

Good luck Duck. Glad you've got the law on your case.

No useful info to add but following so that if you go public with it I can support.

Good luck op!

well according to my new neighbour whos just joined our estate and had a meeting with the solicitors today(same as the ones who i used for my purchase) am very close to being sued..... because i posted a review stating they had sold my leasehold (which they have) and ive stated some of the conditions that are in the lease.

latest story is the sale of the leaseholds are temporary and they will be transferred back to the council after ten years(although the council have no idea about this)

Can they even discuss this with my neighbour? i mean seriously

the development would not be selling the leaseholds on our property, as they had to be given back to the council after a set period of time,

I work in Housing development for a council and have never heard of this other than as a temporary licence granted to build on council land (which is then conveyanced to the developer or a housing association on practical completion, before being sold or rented out).

I cannot see how it could work otherwise as then the council would always own the underlying land and they would be your landlord..

Also there would be nothing in it for them as they would have responsibilities as well as rights but would not own the houses.. I think you have been told an untruth there. But the best way to find out is to look at the planning decision and 'Section 106' document accompanying it ( all planning decisions should be on the planning section of the council website ..

This is a growing problem especially for new build houses.. Have you contacted the Homeowners Alliance quoted in this article?.

Its too late now for you now OP ..But I would strongly recommend anyone buying a new build home does not use the developers recommended lawyer. They are often one of a team working for the developer company but assigned to the client buying or developer selling of the homes and so in effect the same solicitors.. Its legal if there are two people working on the case as (opposites) even if they are still in the same team .

Its also a tempting offer for potential buyers because the fees are so low , but may not actually be the best service for the buyer ..

In a large estate I was involved in for work where a major developer built on a 'licence' we have had more than one incidence of the developer selling to a buyer and even having people moving in , BEFORE Practical Completion fo rthe building was signed by us and the land underneath the property belonging to the council was conveyed to them

I don't have any advice but I just wanted to say that you should wear your troublemaker badge with pride OP.

just a quick note on your lease - that phrase "re-enter" does not mean they can force the door open - it is a legal expression meaning they would be able to bring court proceedings to get an order for possession.

Please don't worry about that particular phrase - it is pretty standard for all leases - it just means that if the rent isn't paid, the landlord could then take it to court.

If it was for non-payment of ground rent or service charges, the court would give the leaseholder the chance to pay it.

Really good luck with this, OP. You sound amazing with everything you've done so far. I love the banners! Keep it up, these fuckers deserve everything they get.

Hey guys thanks for the support,
you were right about the untruth Laska, no such stipulation in the contract to return the land

I have been in touch with the solicitors that handled the sale of our land. They have confirmed that it is an indefinite sale. which I already knew but nice to have it in writing so people don't think am crazy.

I now have written evidence from the lady who attended the meeting with the solicitor (who has represented my purchase and is currently representing her in her purchase) and a sales manager from the development yesterday, that were talking about me in a legal context in regards to suing me for slander, and this solicitor stood by while her client was given false information about the future of her land as she was informed it would be given back to the council after 10 years

Total number of fuck ups

Developer mis selling the house from the get go and continues to do so

solicitor failing to protect myself from rising application fees and vague undefined terms in my lease, that has now been abused by the new owners

breech of confidentiality for discussing me in a legal context (the developer talking about suing me with her in agreement) in front of a fellow purchaser

conflict of interest as this solicitor is aware of the ongoing dispute between myself and the developer

complicit in the mis selling and negligent in her duty of care to her client

apparently if I want a new kitchen I have to apply for an assessment at £78 before admin fees, because my lease is so nondescript I can be charged for changing my flooring, installing new cupboards, changing my light fitting and to change fixtures and fittings. I can't get a final written price for the process as each case is different.

Funny I thought the word affordable was in the developers marketing

Ah buggering hell

Blimey OP, I really feel for you.

Can you get the lady in the meeting to send notes to the others in the meeting to confirm what they said - so that there's a paper trail of it? Not sure if it's best to just say something along the lines of thanking them for letting her know that the leases revert to the council in 10 years time and that she's pleased it's not an indefinite lease (or whatever it's called) or one that can be sold on to other people, and having that in the midst of other things that were said at the meeting so it's effectively minutes and they might miss it or not pull it out to say no, you've misunderstood this bit. Or if it's worth actively saying that she has been looking through the contract and can't see the bit that says that it will revert to the council so please can they let her know which bit it is - which will alert them to the fact that they are being picked up on this.

And also get her (or indeed, anyone else that you come into contact with that has meetings with them when being sold to) to record all meetings on her phone from here on in - if she sets her phone recording as the meeting starts with a breezy - oh I couldn't write fast enough last time to keep up, you don't mind do you, thought it would be sensible for me to make sure I've got everything straight, do you want me to send you a copy or are you going to record it yourselves?

Then they have the choice of telling her the truth in the meeting so risking her pulling out or making them change conditions there and then, or having their lies recorded and coming back to haunt them later.

If they refuse, she can then get very concerned and ask why, because she wasn't aware that there was anything controversial to be discussed, it's just plain information gathering isn't it, what can they possibly object to, and if they do object then it is putting them in a very bad light - she can say that it is making her very suspicious.

She can give them assurances that she isn't going to share them with you if they bring that up - but then she could share them with the Council maybe or somebody else on the action group... but if they are fixated on you then hopefully they will concentrate on you and forget that others will also be involved with this.

It's interesting that they are talking about suing you for slander if you have written confirmation that the only things they want to sue you for are the truth - don't think that's going to get very far. Might be worth double checking that you have legal insurance cover on your home insurance though so that you can send a snotty letter back to them to stop it in its tracks!

This is outrageous but unfortunately I've heard of it happening in new builds near me too. Keep fighting!