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AIBU?

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Original poster

Tories going to axe free school meals

640 replies

cannotbelievethistoday · 18/05/2017 06:46

So I have 2 children in private school.

Labour want to put VAT on private school fees, and extend free school meals to all primary children.

Tories are going to remove infant free school meals.

Bloody hell. And still people will vote Tory.

(My 2 kids are in private school - I totally agree with labour on this one)

OP posts:
swirlywind · 18/05/2017 21:01

CheeseQueen what's not to like is that the money saved on lunches will go back to central government, but the money to cover the extra costs of breakfast staff hours will come from school budgets, or so it would appear at the moment. Our school has sacked one of the midday assistants to save her meagre wages (7.5 hours at minimum wage) as budgets so squeezed already. If the government actually funded it properly with new money then of course it would be great.

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 18/05/2017 21:02

katron

Yeah...we'll find out in about half an hour

I'm not convinced Grin

QuiteUnfitBit · 18/05/2017 21:07

I think this is much fairer than the old system that was proposed to limit the amount paid to a maximum, which totally benefitted the rich.

Abitofaproblem · 18/05/2017 21:08

I thought breakfast means a self serve table of cereal, bread with butter and jam, possibly yogurt and some fruit. I imagine the uptake will be low in affluent areas, but parents will be asked to come in earlier to stay with the kids to have it, instead of it being a free morning childcare club. Actually possibly can ask parents to chip in 50p if they fancy something themselves!

QuiteUnfitBit · 18/05/2017 21:09

(I'm on the "dementia tax" discussion!)

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 18/05/2017 21:13

abit

A number of posters have already said 'yay free childcare' so they would find it inconvenient to stay

And who sets up and clears away

Actually i do think your breakfast idea is a good one

But you would still need school staff to open up, set up, supervise and clear away...at least

Abitofaproblem · 18/05/2017 21:15

Since the breakfast will be cold I was thinking maybe the year 5 and 6 can help serving........

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 18/05/2017 21:17

abit

I base my answers on our local school and obviously they are all different

But our local one has a completely separate infants and junior school

GlitterGlue · 18/05/2017 21:19

Abit, they'll still need staff to prepare and clean. And open up if they don't already have a breakfast club. And be on hand. Plus many school layouts simply don't allow for parents to access the dining area so it's a safeguarding issue.

And where would you put the potentially hundreds of children with their parents?

Perhaps TM is planning on getting Kellogg's to sponsor the breakfasts and will simply sling a breakfast bar at them on the way to assembly? I can't see any way it would work otherwise.

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 18/05/2017 21:28

Oh my god i an getting flashbacks to The thick of it Grin

It takes a good hour at least to get 180 children through for lunch...which i agree is more work than a cold breakfast. But you still have to get them through

Abitofaproblem · 18/05/2017 21:35

I am not saying there is no logistics concern, but I can see it working in my child's two form entry standard suburb school. Obviously need proper funding for it though.

frazzled3ds · 18/05/2017 21:37

I've not read every comment, but I can only assume that universal FSM applies only in England? Here in the part of Wales I live in, if you want school dinners you pay for them, my local council charges £2.10 for an infants lunch and £2.25 for juniors (eldest goes to comp in Sept so will find out then what the charge there is) but does also offer two different schemes that allow for a discount on this - one for having 3 or more DC having school dinners, and another allowing you to pay by DD and getting a discount across the year for doing so (equivalent to something like 2 weeks of 'free' meals). There is a separate scheme for FSM for low income families but tightly controlled in terms of qualifying benefits e.g contribution based JSA doesn't count, but income based JSA does, similarly if you get working tax credits you don't qualify but will do if you only get child tax credit. My kids school does offer a breakfast club, free to users, kids get cereal and toast and a cup of juice or milk, a scheme funded by Welsh Government although funding was reduced recently meaning it's now costing the school to make up the difference on staff wages.

LineysRun · 18/05/2017 21:38

Well there isn't proper funding for it.

My local primary school is losing well over £400 per pupil. It's urban.

GlitterGlue · 18/05/2017 21:46

Two form entry? So around 420 children? Even if only a quarter took it up can you imagine shepherding a hundred or so small children through a breakfast buffet in a timely fashion?

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 18/05/2017 21:49

I have imagined it glitter

Sad i am still sobbing

Abitofaproblem · 18/05/2017 21:52

I don't know, maybe lay the food out on tables so that older children can help themselves? Or ask parents to get their small children sorted before leaving?

You know I am just a parent not staff, but I do think that if it works it can actually help the children who need the food plus fostering some school community spirit.

Maybe I am too naively positive.

LineysRun · 18/05/2017 21:59

It's not going to work unless school is open and staffed for an additional hour.

But schools in my city are losing funding and staff.

This isn't just a caretaker doling out free bananas to the kids on the way in.

MummyBear1536 · 18/05/2017 22:01

The problem we encountered was that those who were entitled to FSM beforehand had to apply and the school then received extra funding for those children. Now FSM is universal, some parents don't bother claiming and schools are missing out on funds which in our case was spent on spare PE kits, etc.

NoMudNoLotus2 · 18/05/2017 22:02

You know you don't have to have the free school lunch. When my ds was in Infants I used to take him a packed lunch in as I didn't agree with the free schools meals for everyone from the start. His school only did cold lunches bought in as there was no school kitchen and the school was too large to accommodate that many pupils for a sit down hot lunch, even in "shifts." So a cold option was chosen to eat in their classrooms.

If you don't agree with it and think you can afford to send them in with a lunchbox, you can do that if you choose. Many kids in key stage 1 in the school I work at do.

GlitterGlue · 18/05/2017 22:03

Lots of the children who really need the food don't have parents who will get them there at 8am to have time for a leisurely breakfast of yogurt and fruit.

Rufus, I quite agree. It's bad enough being stuck behind a slowcoach at a hotel breakfast. A queue of hangry, five year olds doesn't bear thinking about.

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 18/05/2017 22:04

Maybe abit Thanks

NoMudNoLotus2 · 18/05/2017 22:09

Most of the cooks I know in the company I work for start at 8.30am or 9am because it works well as most are parents themselves and do a school run beforehand. I don't suppose they would be best pleased if they suddenly had to come in a 7.30/8am to do a breakfast club as that would cause all sorts of problems with their own family situation/kids/getting to school etc.

CheeseQueen · 18/05/2017 22:23

Lots of the children who really need the food don't have parents who will get them there at 8am to have time for a leisurely breakfast of yogurt and fruit.

So - you're basically saying that in some cases it's not about the money as they have no interest in their children being fed at all as they're refusing to get them to school on time to access free breakfasts.
That's neglect on the parents part, and nothing to do with how much money people do or don't have.
Why are people not taking responsibility for themselves anymore? It's your job as a parent to you know, parent.
There's free school meals for the needy. They haven't said they're taking those away, I agree that would be horrible.

Gileswithachainsaw · 18/05/2017 22:33

You couldn't have yr 5s and 6s doing it either. What about allergies and portion sizes etc

GlitterGlue · 18/05/2017 22:39

I agree it's poor parenting, but the reasons are complex. It's often not wilfully refusing, more can't manage due to addiction, mental health, ill health, chaotic life etc.

I'm not sure they're problems that can be solved with the promise of some free rice crispies.

Schools do try and make sure children are fed, where possible. Sometimes out of a teachers own pocket. Especially as parents with these issues are less likely to sign up for fsm.

For the just about managing then it is absolutely a cost issue. Which is why I said upthread it would be better to extend fsm to the working poor and knock this ridiculous breakfast scheme on the head.