Labours Increase in personal tax over £80k

[OliviaPopeRules]

So Labour have finally announced their 'moderate' tax increase for people over £80k.
These changes mean that if you have a household where one person earns £150k you will pay tax of £58k approx. but if you have a household of 2 people earning £75k you will pay total tax of approx. £37k.

I appreciate a lot of people will think tough shit, you earns lot so screw you but can someone really explain to me how this is not just a tax to punish.

And yes I understand people on lower incomes and disability support and other benefits need to more support and I personally have no problem paying extra tax but this makes the tax system so unequal for couples/ families with only 1 person working.

I earn over £80K a year. I can tell you now that I would much rather pay higher taxes in a society with free decent education, free decent healthcare and free decent social care than pay low taxes but have to pay for that stuff directly. I'd rather give money to the state to access economies of scale that I can't possibly access on my own, even as a high earner.

Agree with this ^

And it's about having a fair society which works for all, not just those earning over £123k who feel hardly done by because they are being asked to contribute a little more in taxes.
To be honest, those that we all owe a debt of thanks to are those public service professions who earn a relatively modest wage but their contibution benefits us all - paramedics, police, firefighters, teachers, nurses, doctors, social workers, mental health practitioners, youth workers, etc. And their vital work needs to be properly funded and resourced, not sacrificed to an austerity agenda which has already been shown to be failing.

Yes! Seawitchly!

reetgood - I think it's not so much that the current proposal is a big change in itself, as that it would be the start of many tax hikes when he simply can't raise enough to fulfil his utopian visions of the 1970's.

And time and time again, history has proven that increasing tax rates doesn't work as corbyn seems to think it will!

New rules mean an extra 5,500 approx.
Actually after ni and increased tax probably taking home about 85k.

Yes probably not totally unacceptable but as mentioned

• 2 people earning the same would be 21k better off
• it is unlikely it will raise what they are saying or what they need to pay for their promises so likely they will need to raise it more. When that happens they aren't going to piss off the people who have voted for them so again they will go to the 'rich' people who earn 80k +

And time and time again, history has proven that increasing tax rates doesn't work as corbyn seems to think it will!

And time and time again, history has proven that increasing tax rates makes the rich howl with righteous indignation

I think it's not so much that the current proposal is a big change in itself, as that it would be the start of many tax hikes when he simply can't raise enough to fulfil his utopian visions of the 1970's.

I agree. It isn't a fully costed manifesto so where is the extra money going to come from?

Yet more worrying reading - this is what I mean about why I don't think expanding what the state is already doing is sustainable - demographic time bomb.

We should focus on what we have because we're in a fight to even maintain this, it looks like:

www.ifs.org.uk/publications/9219

Have been a Labour Party supporter all my life. Don't like jc, dislike this policy as I feel it's very unfair and ineffectual.

I'm a nurse, so hardly a high earner.
Not voting for them this time!

it's about having a fair society which works for all, not just those earning over £123k ... those that we all owe a debt of thanks to are those public service professions who earn a relatively modest wage but their contibution benefits us all

I totally agree; as you rightly suggest, the wage someone's paid doesn't always reflect the value of their contribution

However cold hard reality dictates that we still have to find the money to pay for all those worthwhile services ... the issue seems to be how that can be properly balanced

@rosegoldprosecco, I appreciate that might be some people's concerns but that's not what seems to concern the op? I don't see the difference as a punishment, anyway.

Certainly i don't believe that the conservatives will deliver anything but further service cuts so I can understand why people think labour will give more tax rises.

I don't see that the policy is a big change? I think sometimes people freak out about tax bands, without remembering that you're only taxed at that rate on the income above that rate, not across your entire income. I think the actual difference this will make, rather than the headline figures, is useful.

It's been shown that the less you have, the greater a percentage affects you. So for those people supported by in work benefits for example or dla, a 4% decrease in benefits equals a return bus fare. I'd rather have the decrease in income affect those who are more able to sustain it, rather than asking the most vulnerable to bear it.

What surprises me a bit is that neither party has proposed an(other) increase in tax on second homes/buy to let etc.

Considering that that would a) raise (a bit of) revenue and b) help shift the market towards owner occupiers, it is odd that it's not more of an election issue. What happened to the mobilisation of Generation Rent? Slightly unexpectedly, the cons have actually done more to tax btl than lab did, or proposes to do. Maybe there are now so many btl landlords that it's deemed politically too risky.

I don't think expanding what the state is already doing is sustainable - demographic time bomb

Sorry to go off on a bit of a tangent, but isn't this why ridiculous things like the pension triple lock have simply got to go? I realise it's been kept to buy pensioner votes, but surely that's utterly unsustainable

And before anyone jumps on me, I'll be a pensioner myself soon; it's tough that it would cost me money but that can't be helped if unfairness like this is ever going to be ended

@oliviapoperules, I had to use a salary calculator to work out what it is in the current financial year :) in this financial year a person would pay £53300 in tax if they had a £150k salary. In your opening post you explained that tax would rise to £57000 under the manifesto policy. That is a difference of £3900, not £5500.

The NI would remain the same, unless I'm missing something in the manifesto announcement?

Slightly unexpectedly, the cons have actually done more to tax btl than lab did, or proposes to do.

Yes I'm not sure many people are aware how much tax has increased on btl.
I'm also surprised there isn't more policies around renting.
I think there should be some sort of controls on increases and minimum terms of rental.

Howl with laughter as they head off into the sunset, more like, Just.

It's naïve to think that, if Corbyn does get in, and he does fuck the economy, that the rich will simply stick around to pay for it.

Yes, of course people should pay for the benefits of living in a democratic first world society. But if you make it too unattractive to invest here; if you make it too unattractive to be entrepreneurial here; if you make it too unappealing to work hard for a high salary, people simply won't stay.

Look at people like the new duke of Westminster avoiding millions in inheritance tax. That's the sort of area they should be looking at. Not starting a slippery slope of tax rises.

I know several agents and surveyors who say that the SDLT on second homes has really softened the London market. Not sure they'd be brave enough to rock that boat any further? We'll see!

I think also Reet that some - about to be disagreed with I realise! - are sceptical that increasing spending always results in a commensurate improvement in public services (sorry!) . An earlier poster made the point more forcefully, I think.

Obviously where financial benefits are concerned, or cuts in fees (like tuition fees), an increase in spending does mean a directly equivalent benefit to recipients.

DH and I each earn a bit more than £80k so would be affected by this. But we are both big supporters of this, and would gladly pay more tax to support better state facilities for all.

We live in London, so aren't left with too much at the end of the month, but that's totally our/my fault, as I love going to shows/concerts/meals / holidays. I worry about DCs' futures, and know I should also save more for their university costs etc.

But we are not poor, we just have the luxury to make (stupid) choices. We are both happy to pay more tax to support the NHS and education that we benefit from, and also things that benefit others. Many people earn much less, and I cannot see why those on more should not pay more proportionately in taxes.

It disgusts me when people say that they will eg pay higher pension contributions to bring their salaries below the £80k. Completely selfish I think, and a blinkered attitude.

I said 58k rounded, the difference is 5k so I may have been slightly off saying 5.5k

yes puzzled at some point the pension issue has to be tackled - it's politically unpalatable to both parties though, sadly.

@I17neednumbers that's a fair point. It's not like governments have exactly set our minds at rest in the past! I bet that would be a really useful issue for labour to address, although I don't know how they'd do it (without saying 'elect us and see!')

And I think I based the difference on the expected bands for 2018.19 which explains part of the difference. I said 58k in the Op, sorry if I used a different number somewhere else.

@oliviapoperules I'm not good enough at the maths for it not to take me ages to work out how much extra you'd pay. But basically, it would be less the personal allowance, basic rate up to whatever, higher rate after ? £75k and a rise from 40 to 50% after £123k. I have the principle but I know it would take me ages to work out :)

NoLotteryWinYet
Pension rules have changed drastically and will continue over the next couple of years. If you earn over 150k you are severely restricted in what pension contributions you can get tax relief on.