Labours Increase in personal tax over £80k

[OliviaPopeRules]

So Labour have finally announced their 'moderate' tax increase for people over £80k.
These changes mean that if you have a household where one person earns £150k you will pay tax of £58k approx. but if you have a household of 2 people earning £75k you will pay total tax of approx. £37k.

I appreciate a lot of people will think tough shit, you earns lot so screw you but can someone really explain to me how this is not just a tax to punish.

And yes I understand people on lower incomes and disability support and other benefits need to more support and I personally have no problem paying extra tax but this makes the tax system so unequal for couples/ families with only 1 person working.

what is "their fair share"? How are you defining that?

Well for many corporations, we could start with anything over 0%.

Just something really. Anything....

then I suggest you take a look through your own post history and see the amount of sound bits you like to use

Yes. Here's one:

Have a plan before you leave the EU. Anything at all.

If the economy had been growing normally at a consistent pace of 2-3% per year the debt as a percentage of GDP would be a lot lower and there would be a much larger economic engine to service the debt, which given an annual deficit, is inexorably increasing.

Interesting article on the UK's budget position. Thatcher created the conditions which normalised deficits. Labour was criticised under TB for running surpluses.

I am mistrustful of the obsession with debt and deficit as both terms are open to re interpretation and manipulation. I am equally sceptical about headline GDP growth when GDP per head has been flat or falling for the past decade.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/how-unusual-is-it-for-the-british-government-to-run-a-budget-surplus-10309178.html

Make, but the thread is about personal tax. For individuals. The ones that "fantasise" about moving abroad. How do you define their "fair share"?

Is chanting over and over "strong and stable" "red, white and blue" real? Or the stuff of wishful thinking?

No other party or campaign uses simple strap lines at all do they? Oh wait...

I don't think any party has come out of Brexit covered in roses tbh.

Labours approach has been confusing and somewhat shambolic.

Conservatives seems to be non existent.

You can equally say that to your poor nurses who emigrated to Canada or Australia for better work and conditions. They were trained here using our tax money and how dare they think about their own situation. True nurses should just stay and suck it up?

Oh come of it Abit with your slippery slopes!
A nurse on £25k who cannot afford to buy a house or support a family and emigrates to Aus where the pay and conditions are better is not in the same category as a banker on £150k who cannot bear the thought of paying a little more tax and hence is apparently seriously considering uprooting their family and way of life to emigrate to Switzerland or BVI!

I've got some sympathy with the view that some economists hold that austerity was sharper than it needed to be and held back growth somewhat - but neither party has gotten to grips with the demographic time bomb on NHS spending and pensions. Even to fund the current level of services, taxes need to rise.

I don't think the state should be cut back, but we are going to have to pay more for less over the next 50 years...

www.ifs.org.uk/publications/9219

^If you have 2 parents earning 75k, for preschool aged kids they will get 30 hours per week free childcare (it may only be for 38 weeks I'm not 100% sure) but this should cover most childcare costs for under 4/5's before they start school.
So unless you have 4+ kids in after school club I do find it hard to believe you would be spending 21k and I do think you would be the exception not the rule.^

Oh sweetie, you're not telling me anything I don't know. But you're absolutely dreaming if you think that the 30 hours for term-after-they-turn-3 (which can wipe off a good whack of a school year) comes close to covering the nursery fees for most full day care places. Well done on swallowing the spin, though. When DS2 finally qualifies in a couple of years' time, his care costs for 4 days a week will drop to around £850/month. Plus breakfast/after school club, etc...

And when I take my next job (which will bump me over the £90k point - and I should note I'm happy to pay the extra tax rate given I will be able to absorb it better than the majority), I'll need to go 5 days a week, so those costs go higher.

but I won't vote for tax rises for things I don't agree with, like the national education service, free tuition, expansion in free school meals. Why can't we fix what we've got instead?

SeaWitchly

You still do not understand, do you comrade? It's not the tax that is the problem, at least for me, it is the your judgey attitude towards what you think others should do or deserves. It is the they earn more so they deserves to pay whatever I think it's fair.

We all have one vote each, and rich people are way fewer than than the average or low earners. Why do people not vote for Labour and their tax plans? Why is he not looking at winning landslides and preparing his speech in front of number 10?

It's because of your non aspirational, negative attitude.

Plus Dianne Abbott obviously.

Sea, you absolutely do not get it.

It's not about paying "a bit more tax". They believe JC and his disciples will realise their maths is out and promptly raise taxes again. And again. And then fuck the economy - and tax them more and more to deal with it. History of the labour party's economic track record shows they are right.

You can despise high earners all you like - the cold and brutal truth is that someone paying £7,000 a month in tax is more useful than bleeding heart principles and £700 a month!

Shotsfired poorer people will directly benefit from the extra 5% or £62 a month.
One of the ways Labour would use the extra tax, would be to cancel the £30 a week cut to the wrag group of ESA.

Jassy

The condescending tone is not necessary thanks, I didn't answer you in that manner I simply explained my point, sweetie!
I understand how free 30 hours works which is why I said i thought it only covered term time. I know the cost of childcare as I have two children under 4 myself.
I never said that some people wouldn't have childcare costs at 21k I just said it wouldn't be the norm and maybe some value could be attributed to SAHP's.
Good for you that you are happy to pay the extra tax. I hope as your salary continues to increase you are also happy to pay 60% on any income you earn between 100 and 120k and 50% on any income over that.
Oh and for the further increase that will happen when the tax receipts expected from IT and CT changes don't materialise.

sea they are not only emigrating to give their families a better life, they are taking with them at least £70,000 which the UK has invested in their training. Most will never pay back anything like that amount, and other countries are benefitting from our investment. But that's okay, because we in turn are recruiting our replacement nurses from poorer countries where they have invested their taxes in training their staff, and we poach them with higher wages, leaving both a brain and financial drain on those countries, who are poorer and cannot attract the staff they need.

the thread is about personal tax. For individuals ... How do you define their "fair share"?

Interesting to see that this has been asked repeatedly but never actually answered; instead there are just more barbs about the selfish rich and the expensive things they can afford

As I've said before, rather too much of this seems to be down to simple envy

I think the slogan says it all 'for the many (poor, hardworking, downtrodden normal person) not the few (evil tax evading corporations and rich bastards who earn over 80k)

Never mind that the evil tax evading corporations provide jobs, pay corporation tax, excise duty, employers NI, collect VAT and provide jobs so people can live.
Or the fact that a lot of people earning over 120k already pay approx 40% in taxes on their income.

oliva

Plus NI which is a tax under a different name

And the 60% on that amount which i cant remember between about 100k and 120k

And no i am not saying that people shouldn't pay more tax but for some it starts not making sense after a certain point

I agree, I actually don't object to paying extra tax for people who need it but that doesn't not include meals for kids, university fees for young adults who in both cases could have parents who have a high level of income or assets. Also not happy to throw lots of money at the NHS without fundamental change and parties working together.
And contrary to what people are saying labour have not said they will reverse the benefit cuts, they have budgeted 2bn to review the position but as the cuts save 12bn pa I can't see how they will reverse them.

Didn't mean to be condescending, tbh. Just pointing out that your assumptions are way wide of the mark.

If you have a student loan, after taking account of NI the effective tax rate above £21k is 41%. The wealthiest will be the only ones paying off student loans under the current regime.

Jassy fair enough, cheers. I don't agreee but not much point in going over it again.

Its fuckin scary how

Ds1 is going to uni and we are hoping he only has the tuition fee loans to pay

But as he said yesterday what happens if the interest rates increase

Rufus I really don't think people grasp that student loans are in fact an increase in basic rate tax through the back door. Interest rate of inflation plus 3% is almost 6%. Even if you earn £50k you would only be paying back 3% a year of a £30k fee loan. Unless your DS is destined for the £80k tax bracket I would encourage him to borrow the max maintenance loan as well, as he is unlikely to end up paying back any more in total over the 30 years.

I have 2 approaching the same stage and am very grateful to be in Scotland.

I agree how

Just do not like the idea of that debt hanging over his head

He is a bit of a sword of damocles child as it is!!!