to have arrived unannounced?

[ChiantiOnTap]

I'm looking for a nursery for my daughter to start in September. She'll be 2. Me and my husband decided to visit a potential yesterday to look around. We didn't ring ahead as I wanted to see what it was like on an average day (as far as possible).

The nursery refused us entry and specifically stated that we don't have DBS checks (coincidentally we both do as we work with vulnerable people in NHS roles but they weren't to know that). When I queried further they said that the parents of the children would need to be notified of our presence and they couldn't do this now.

AIBU to think that this is batshit? When they take them out to the park or wherever there could be all number of people hanging around without DBS checks. But they're the responsible adults that the parents have trusted to safeguard their children surely?

I wouldn't expect to be left in a room alone with the children btw. Just escorted through, briefly observing whatever happened to be going on at the time.

AIBU? Is this not a thing?

[Casschops]

Makes me giggle thinking that there are people behind the scenes with head sets whispering " right they are now entering baby room one, little smiling Freddie in the walker enter stage right and everyone siiiiiiing"

[socialanxietysrus]

Exactly Kipper

No you can't "set up " children, but you can set up the staff not sat around chatting rather than interacting, activities set up, ratios etc

It does happen unfortunately, hopefully in not many places!!

[MrsJayy]

21 years ago a man walked into a primary school and murdered 16 children and a teacher since then all childcare and school security had to be tightened,

[Cheby]

I looked at nurseries 3 years ago, they all made appointments for me at my request (I was coming a long way so needed to know I would be able to look round) but all of them also said I could just turn up when I liked and drop in. So YANBU OP. And then saying you need to be DBS checked is bullshit.

[MaryThorne]

The advice we were given 3.5 years ago was just to turn up however all four nurseries we looked around were appointment only, including the nursery we use which DS started at 3 years ago in June. We are very happy with the nursery and DS has always been very happy there. It sounds like the reasoning you were given was badly handled but I absolutely wouldn't rule out a nursery because they wouldn't show you around without an appointment.

[BoredOnMatLeave]

Well our nursery has extra reception staff and are happy to do unscheduled visits as long as they have the spare resources.

I think its ok to just turn up but be prepared to be turned away if they don't have the resources. When we were looking we did an arranged visit then an unscheduled one to check everything was the same.

I think they do set it up a bit, when we first looked and went in the baby room all the babies and workers were sat in a circle singing songs it was all very sweet... I haven't seen that happen since....

[ITooHaveBeenThere]

I'm always a bit about people who have responsbility for safeguarding in their jobs and then demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of the need for safeguarding.

[thatdearoctopus]

We often have people tour our school and we teaching staff are never specifically informed. They will all have made an appointment with the office/Head though.
So we're not primed to "show off" in advance. But neither would it be a red flag for people to be asked to make an appointment.

[ElinorRigby]

I am not sure that the tragic incident at Dunblane, means that there should be airport/border control style security in nurseries. The real threats to children's wellbeing seem to be more related to the fact they are now kept as virtual prisoners either at home or in chilcare settings.

(I was a small child in Manchester in the era of the Moors Murders and played out on the street, disappeared with my friends for the morning or afternoon etc.)

I'd argue that the lessons there were more about the need for strict control about who was issued with a gun license.

As nurseries are inspected by Ofsted, I'd expect all nurseries to show sufficient regard for safeguarding children, and would look up the relevant inspection reports online.

In terms of taking care of children's well-being I'd place the highest priority on seeing happy children and engaged staff. It would seem easier to assess this via an informal visit - though it would be sensible and courteous to ring first.

[socialanxietysrus]

Do you mean me havebeen?

I think there's a lot of misunderstanding on this thread. Personally I think that as long as someone is available to show parents around then they should be able to drop in. As I say, I've always worked at places that allow it but maybe that's due to always having enough staff for it to happen . If there isn't then obviously I don't think it's a good idea!

I don't get the point about the man who came in and shot children. Would that not have happened if he had an appointment? Would his credentials have been checked?

[MrsJayy]

Sorry that was for the poster who said things have changed i didnt mean to be flippant but after the terrible incident security was tightened all over the uk and i guess that has filtered down over the last 20 years.

[MrsJayy]

Well yes if he made an appointment his credentials would have been checked and found he had no need to be at the school my point being schools and nurseries used to be quite open door

[Birdsgottaf1y]

It can be standard policy, it was in my DDs excellent Nursery (she was a room leader).

Or, It might be that they've recently taken on a child in Foster Care and are having to be extra vigilant.

I don't see an issue with having to show ID to book an appointment, but then I used to work in a Safeguarding role.

In days gone by, Foster Children were 'kidnapped' from settings and also taken by non-resident Parents.

Every child death/injury/emotional trauma has led us to the point of being as vigilant as we now are.

[socialanxietysrus]

Having not worked at a nursery that doesn't have an open door/ knock for a look round visit, do they check people before they come? Maybe that's the point I'm missing!

[ElinorRigby]

I think there is a big difference between paper policies to satisfy bureaucrats on what happens on the ground.

At one point my daughter's secondary school sent out a letter saying parents should produce ID if they were picking up children during the school day - i.e. for dental appointments. I told the school that I did not see the need to do this. Reception staff knew who I was and my child knew who I was. (The school had no actual interest in seeing ID and never did ask. It was just they had to show they'd sent the letter out in order to get a tick in the box when Ofsted came to look at the paperwork.)

In terms of risk assessment I think there is a balance, and we cannot imprison our children and never allow them any contact with anybody, because of the remote chance that a psychopath will visit. It's the everyday stuff - the availability of green spaces, air pollution, a child-centred school curriculum - that we ought to spend more time worrying about.

[froyotogo]

1. You don't have their DBS checks despite what else you may have.
2. Do they know you? have you registered an interest thereby giving them your names and addresses?
3. Which child do you propose should go without care whilst the carer shows you around?
4. Make an appointment like everyone else.

[SoupDragon]

As others have pointed out, you do not have a valid DBS check for the nursery so, on that point they were right and you were wrong. Whether you actually needed one is another point entirely.

I was never under the impression that you could just pitch up at a nursery and expect to be shown round though.

[SoupDragon]

I'm not sure that I would be happy with a nursery that let random strangers to just come I need for a look.

[Brittbugs80]

Those of you who think an appointment is necessary, can you explain how making an appointment makes it safe? What happens during the booking of an appointment that eradicates danger? If someone was coming in to hurt a child, to try and kidnap a child etc, why does booking a specific time make it safe?!?!?!

Those that are uptight about the Safeguarding are the ones that have no idea how it works.

[mando12345]

In the excellent nursery that I worked in for 12 years we had appointments for viewers. This enabled us to bring in an extra member of staff to do the viewing otherwise our staff ratios were reduced.

However parents were able to stay as long as they wanted when settling their children, we had nothing to hide.

[Soubriquet]

I wouldn't be impressed if random people were let in with no appointment

[balence49]

No no no, if you can't turn up and look around there's no way I'd use them. If they are that busy and so understaffed that a 5-10 min show round is not possible what on earth are they going to do when a incident/accident happens. There should always be an open door policy at nurserys. If I need an appointment to look round what's going on that they don't want you to see??
Same with nursing/care homes

[ChiantiOnTap]

Thank you for all the replies. I'm sorry I haven't read all of them completely - now getting into work but didn't want to be an annoying OP who just disappears.

It's interesting to see different points of view and I do kind of see it from both sides. Thank you for taking time to reply.

To answer a few points I can remember from PP - we didn't turn up expecting to just go off on our own and talk to the children! I (perhaps wrongly) assumed that if the manager, or another member of staff who wasn't in the numbers, was free they might have time for a chat and a brief look around the space they have and to see the kind of activities they were up to.

Totally didn't consider naps or meal times so thank you for raising that issue. I honestly don't think I'd have a problem with potential parents coming in to view the nursery I place my daughter in. Im struggling to see the difference an appointment would make to safety.

Also, I wasn't hoping to "catch them out" as someone implied. I am only visiting nurseries that I have looked at online and been encouraged by their ethos / excited to think my daughter might be able to go there. The last thing I'm hoping for is for them to actually be awful!

[SoupDragon]

I honestly don't think I'd have a problem with potential parents coming in to view the nursery I place my daughter in. Im struggling to see the difference an appointment would make to safety.

How about people that only claim to be potential parents? Obviously an appointment only gives a certain amount of information (which may be fake!) but there might be particularly vulnerable children who would need to be moved if strangers are visiting, similar to how some are unable to participate in performances or be photographed. Unusual but not unheard of.

[TimeIhadaNameChange]

As well as the already-mentioned reasons I wonder if the have a looked-after child in their care. I used to work at a nursery which had a couple of foster kids, and we would never have let someone in off the street in case they were from the birth family trying to find them. Ok, it was unlikely, but we couldn't have taken the risk.