To ask you not to buy fidget spinners or any other shit and let your DCs take them to school?

[StrongerThanIThought76]

I'm a teacher. The current fad for Things To Piss The Teacher Off In Class is fidget spinners.

Before anyone jumps on me I recognise and accept that for some SEN kids they are a godsend. I know that. I really really do.

But there are so many kids that are now telling anyone in their vicinity that they are to help them focus etc etc.

NO THEY FUCKING DON'T!

They're a distraction not only to the kid in question, to the kids around you and to the poor sod at the front of the room trying to teach.

If your kid has SEN speak to the SENCO at school who will advise you if your kid would be allowed to have one. Even then (as it is in my school) they should only be used when appropriate.

If your kid is 'normal' then please don't send the damn TOYS into school. The only thing most kids should have in their hand during lessons is a pen or pencil!

And don't call in demanding that your kid gets their TOY back immediately - they've had it confiscated because they're pissing about in class. We wouldn't be happy with them playing with an Action Man or remote control car in class, and neither would you be.

Rant over. We have a hard enough time as it is in schools, keep the extra distraction out of the classroom please?

Thankyou

Evening all. We've had a fair few reports about this thread.

As we've said many times before, we don't want to see disablist posts on our Talkboards.

We want to help educate people so that they're not even thinking in a disablist way, let alone posting anything disablist on the boards.

But we know from experience that a heavy handed approach really doesn't work. Given that @StrongerThanIThought76 has apologised for her use of the word 'normal' in her OP, we're leaving it up. We think that her post has led to an interesting and valid discussion. We hope you agree.

We have, however, taken down a fair few goady and disablist posts, from other posters, which were reported and which we agree broke talk guidelines.

We'll continue to remove any posts which we consider to be disablist and we'll continue to delete threads which we feel are deliberately inflammatory. But we're not going to remove posts or threads which we feel are genuine questions and discussions and we feel that this thread, on the whole, falls into the latter category.

Thank you.

I'm not sure I agree with you trifle about MS not being the right place. Although totally get what you say about not being able to give all students enough time because of unsupported needs.

But I can fully sympathise now you've said you are an English teacher!

My ds has asd and his biggest need is communication - his language is amazing but actually communicating is not! He is approximately 4 years behind in English despite cognitively being top 20% on overall CAT testing. But that's because 3 areas were amazing - VR is 20%tile and spelling age is 6 years. He's year 8. He also has fine motor coordination dysfunction as well as severe difficulties with executive function.
His poor English teacher cannot do anything about the fact 26 students can read and access the hobbit and ds just really can't. OK- he can read it - the words that is and they've done reasonable adjustments such as overlay etc. But he needs 1:1 support in her lessons as he needs an entirely different input and his output reflects the fact he struggles to grasp the concepts.
His teacher is the loveliest person ever - but she's human.

His MFL teacher in comparison has 14 in the class (interestingly all boys!) who are all 'set' due to the fact they struggle. She can tailor her lesson and learning pace etc to the needs of the class.

Yet I have little time and am quite blunt with other teachers who just don't even try. E.g. music teacher who sits noise and tactile sensitive ds in the middle of 2 students when they do 3 to a keyboard work and complains he's disruptive. Or the art teacher who moans my ds who can hardly hold a pencil isn't shading to her standard and who can barely touch some materials gets flustered during collage work.
It took me suggesting "sit ds on the end" and "can't he not do his 3D mask on a computer programme" for them to actively try and improve things for ds, the other students and themselves.

IMO there's a whole difference between not being able to meet need due to resources and not being able to meet need due to lack of actual thought process.

My 13 year old ds who has ASD and ADHD today when we were talking about spinners being the latest craze around, said that he enjoys playing with the spinners (he doesn't have one but they are all around school!), but that the fidget cube helps him concentrate while the spinner do not! Each child with special educational needs, have different needs, so what works with one child with ASD will not necesaaily work with another child with ASD, likewise what works with one child with ADHD will not necessarily work with another child with ADHD.

I think that parents with children with SENs find it frustrating, when they know what works for their particular child, and teachers often don't talk to them about what would help. Trifle's example earlier in the thread, citing a child with ADHD, I would love to know if the educational plan for that child, included the suggestions made by the parents, or if the parents are frustrated by the continual focus on not enough resources being quoted, instead of support being given for sometimes simple adaptations, that would make the teachers life easier, and ease the issues in the class.

It can sometimes be as simple as where in the classroom a child is seated. Put my child in the front of the classroom, with other distract-able children, and my child can not learn, and will likely be a fidgeting distraction to others. Put my child at the back of the class room, no distraction and more relaxed child, who fidgets less and can learn. Instead there are guidelines drawn up on rewards and punishments, and expectations!

Spinners are a nuisance. I hope all schools ban them. They're TOYS

Spinners are a nuisance. I hope all schools ban them. They're TOYS

Well that's a bit silly. By all means hope your school bans them. But how can it affect you if other schools allow them?

Sorry, just got one for my Ds.

And I just asked my autistic ds if his school allows them.

Big mistake! I got a full 5 minute monologue on how bloody ridiculous they are and some scientific explanation about how they are ribbons and something to do with wheels and circles and ....

Thanks for apologising over use of word 'normal' as that also annoyed me. I'm a teacher and an Auntie to a child with ASD so see it from both angles. Next phone call I make about these poxy toys will use your analogy of bringing an Action Man to school!!

Well well well. I had DS just 10 minutes before this thread appeared begging me to buy him a 'fidget spinner'. Apparently everyone's got one and it will help him. DS has ADHD, but has never needed someone anything to fiddle with apart from in yr 5, until now. I imagined him fiddling with it with other kids, dropping it, spinning it again and completely distracting the teacher and himself. After some thought I said, no, I'm not buying it. Then this thread appeared. How odd. It sounds like a potential nuisance.

My eldest is on the AS and he has both a cube and spinner. They don't imo help him concentrate, they provide him with weaponry. The cube is the slightly lesser evil of the two.

Also a word of warning, if your children happen to wear glasses as my youngest does, be aware that using the lens as a low friction spinning surface will result in a rather hefty optician bill (as I found out this week 😡)

Well, I'm a big meanie - I banned them outright from my classroom on the first day they started to show up. I had been given a heads-up from my DD about how irritating they find them and know full well that there are many children in my class that could not manage (or would not choose) to limit their use to playtimes. They younger they are, the harder they find it to put things away and not play with them in the cloakrooms, classroom or even the toilets!

I'm fully aware that many children can listen while they doodle/fidget with whatever. But there are many children who cannot (or will not) listen and take in instructions if they have something like a spinner or other toy to become engrossed in.

I bought fidget cubes and are awaiting the spinners. My cube is in my pocket, DS was able to highlight how fucking annoying they can be playing with the switch for 3 minutes solid!

So I agree, not in school. Teachers will be needing therapy.

No exceptions.

They're an invention that's recent, little Timmy might enjoy it, but his teacher will be psychotic by break time.

youarenotkiddingme

Of course, it must be frustrating when the solution is clear and manageable and staff are still not doing it. I am certainly not talking about students whose needs can be reasonably accommodated. I have 20 students on the SEN register in one of my classes! All need minor adjustments but many of those can be achieved through simple changes to my normal teaching practice.

Don't worry trifle other than agreeing the pupils shouldn't be in MS I'm totally on your side.
It outrages me that LAs are spending more on tribunals to fight EHCP and support and putting pressure on teachers to manage these children in class who actually do need more support. And making teachers fail them and other students until crisis point is hit and then taking a year faffing around drawing up EHCP that aren't even specific.

The system itself is failing and teachers seem to be the ones held accountable for that - despite the fact they know what pupils need and can shout it from the rooftops - and it makes barely a joy of difference in most cases.

One of the things i put in my ds request for statutory assessment was the amount of time he requires the teachers time 1:1 and the affect this has on all pupil progress.

One of the things i put in my ds request for statutory assessment was the amount of time he requires the teachers time 1:1 and the affect this has on all pupil progress.

You sound brilliant.

I don't begrudge any of the time needed by any of my students. But I despair at the idea that a teacher's time is infinitely malleable such that they can absorb any amount of pressure, meet any number of individual needs properly and do this without a measurable impact on other students' progress. That obviously can't be true, as you recognise here!

I think the poorly funded MS provision fails almost everyone at the moment. How can 1 teacher teach effectively 30 students with such diverse needs?

Some people complain those with additional needs are taking all the attention. Shy loads of parents with children who have additional needs complain that their children needs aren't even anywhere near being met.

I think it's a bit disingenuous to be blasting teacher saying they should just try harder like some PP have been doing.

I'd like to see specialist provision units within a mainstream setting - so that everyone can have the education they deserve.

I'd like to see specialist provision units within a mainstream setting - so that everyone can have the education they deserve.

My son is in a unit for complex needs, except the unit now mostly has children who struggle to go into mainstream at all (they either can't get a placement in the nearest special schools as they don't meet the criteria or there is no space for them in those schools or their parents do not want them to go to a special school) , and so my son has gone into mainstream with a 1-1, except the head of the unit has taken her eye of the ball and my son is now in a mainstream class, where the teachers failed to differentiate for him, his TA has failed to assist with the alternative forms of communication necessary for him to access the curriculum, his health needs aren't being met and it is an almighty shit show. It's alright though, because he isn't detracting from the teacher's time at all,

My experience of specialist provision units within a mainstream setting was that it was the worst of both worlds. Still the pressures of a national curriculum alongside their mainstream peers but without the integration because they were "unit pupils" and so only joined lessons with their allocated support. Timetable pressures meant there wasn't the time the staffing or the experience to work on anything outside the academics so no social skills training,no life skills, no OT/SALT input and then the pupils themselves who needed more than mainstream provision were taught by mainstream teachers who, whilst the majority put in a huge amount of time and effort,just didn't have the time, skills, experience or resources available to teach in a way that considered their individual needs alongside the other 25 kids.
Ds moved from a unit to independent specialist provision and so 6 pupils,one teacher and three TA's in his class a completely individualised timetable and psych,OT and SALT on site. It was exactly what was needed but of course it cost the LA £50k a year and taxi and escort costs to get him to the neighbouring LA on top.

trifle in the example you gave (yesterday 20:04) You said you have to reprimand, warn and then sanction irrespective of his SN, you say he walks in to the class swinging his bag around his head, engages in play fights and is disruptive, you say he has a 1-1, what is the 1-1 doing while all this is happening? Something is not working and maybe it's time for his PIP to be reviewed, new strategies applied. Is this child's achievement in this class a cause for concern? Is he keeping up with the curriculum or has he fallen behind? If he is failing (or feels he is failing) in this subject then something needs to change, without more information people cannot help you.

Just saying that kids with these SEND shouldn't be in mainstream education is what is making other people angry because often there is no other option open to their children. Your local state BESD school will often not be the right environment for them and specialist placements are few and far between and are hard to secure a place in because the LA will most likely fight parents every inch of the way.

As a pp said start a new thread somewhere more appropriate and ask for some advice or suggestions.
I get that it is a difficult situation and that a solution needs to be found.

We have schools that accept students with complex needs and they usually get a SW on a 1:1 basis. We have a unit for children who can't cope in mainstream school, I think that's more behavioural and H&S stuff, although I know a girl who went there who had Aspergers, I never really saw any adverse behaviours, but I guess that could be different in a class with lots of triggers. The we have a specialist school that in my day was where children with Downs Syndrome, Low Functioning Aspergers, really complex needs both educational and medical. So in my local area there was access to 3 really different types of school dependent on parental wishes and need.

I don't know how they operate now as I know at DD's school they have children who can't communicate at all, they use makaton (sp?) but my DD likes going with these children and looking for creepy crawlies and others things they like, she's so caring.

My DS is at school with a child who has various needs, in the teaching world I don't know what you'd call DS, but when the child has 1:1 sessions for various things, the child can take someone and takes DS. I wouldn't say it was a role model, but someone who understands that they have different needs.

It's interesting speaking to DS when he gets frustrated if his friend is having a bad day. DS has been equipped to learn how to deal with such situations. It's interesting speaking to DD and how she can talk 100 mph about what she did with the non verbal children and how they communicate in a different way that she understands from being around them.

I think because I'm not well they're naturally supportive children, I recall a Mums day where I was helping restock art stuff for a teacher, the door opened up onto the play ground, I could see DS supporting a girl that was upset.

I think if children are willing, to have more inclusiveness, having peers that are naturally supportive and understanding, gives children with complex needs some normalcy. So it's not like she said when she started, these children, would be with their 1:2:1 SW all the time, they would just watch people play. She'd say Mummy that's not right, they deserve to play too.

There must be more out there that would like to take on the role. I think having all abilities in school is amazing. I remember being young and at the pub there was a couple with a DS boy, he was non verbal but made noises, I was scared of him as I'd never seen that. I'd run away, he'd think it was a game, I'd be inconsolable. But his Dad took the time to sit me down and explain, as soon as I understood it was fine. It was just not knowing if that makes sense. I might have been 7 or 8 maybe. I'd never seen a person with DS before.