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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Labour 'gender identity' & equality law

68 replies

Sittinonthefloor · 11/05/2017 11:24

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-trans-transgender-policy-equality-act-aggravated-offence-outdated-langauge-a7729666.html

OP posts:
SirVixofVixHall · 11/05/2017 13:36

OP completely agree with your post at 12:47
I despair actually. That makes me not want to vote labour. I would love to vote WEP but won't because of this identity bollocks. I can't see a single party actually defending women and women's rights.

Fortnum · 11/05/2017 13:37

A cery similar Law has just been passed in Canada (bill c16) its utterlly madness. I would recommend looking up proffessor Jordan Peterson who has been fighting it and come under a lot of pressure from the hard left over this.

SirVixofVixHall · 11/05/2017 13:44

It is madness. I was trying to exlain it to dd (12) and she was like this Shock. Actually she genuinely panicked at the idea that men might be able to use loos and changing rooms that she goes into. I know my mother, who died a year ago, would simply not have gone into a public loo, or a changing room, if it had been open to males who "feel like women", or who even just say that they "feel like women". If a young girl can see the madness in this, then what on earth is happening? Canada has had quite a few incidents of transwomen attacking women hasn't it?

BBCNewsRave · 11/05/2017 13:51

pringle How dare Labour try to outlaw hate crimes against LGBT people... How dare they try to curb usage of offensive and derogatory terms?!?!

Depends what you mean by "offensive and derogatory language", really. The T of LGBT seem to think it means agreeing with everything they say. I dont agree with other groups - for example, I'm not Muslim myself so I disagree with their ideology. Doesn't mean I am islamophobic or think they should be discriminated against. For some reason not agreeing with the trans narrative makes me transphobic, despite not wanting trans people to be discriminated against.

neli You all need to calm down about the 'men in bathrooms' thing and understand that LGBT people are beaten, raped and villified far worse than most of MN have ever experienced.

We're women, we are aware what this is like. I realise it suits you to ignore that though.

Perhaps the trans lobby should focus their campaigns on addressing violence against trans people rather than access to women's spaces? We really could do with some help addressing the huge problem of male violence!

Half of the LGBT are women too (with or without trans counts) so this IS about safe places for women - women who are especially vulnerable!

Nope, women who are especially vulnerable are going to be forced to share "safe" and intimate spaces with males!

And the L of LGBT - you mean the women who should agree to being penetrated by a penis otherwise it's ? (A female penis, obvs.)

MrsGWay If you want to really want to upset yourselves read the Trans ideology being sent into schools. Stonewall website has it.

Do you mean this?

The one featuring a male who identifies as a woman, going into the women's loo. The young women in there whisper to each other - why is he there? So the transwoman tries the men's loo next time, where there are two threatening middle aged men who shout abuse and intimidate them.

The discussion point for the class is "How did the women behave towards her? How did that make her feel?"
Completely ignoring the threatening behaviour of the men, and pinning the "transphobia" on the women.

FrenchMind Come on, BBC, admit it, it is funny, in a schadenfreude way. But apparently, the Labour care about everyone but women that want to keep their own space. And you are a-ok with it.

I see what you're getting at but I find it just horrifying. Across the political spectrum, and in other areas of life, people seem to be so tribal. Like they doggedly agree with a person or people (their "tribe"), rather than specific issues. (I'm hesitant to mention it as don't want to derial - but Corbyn having a nuanced view of EU really got people's back's up!)
And I'm definitely not a-ok with it, but voting is a lesser of evils, for me personally.

SirVixofVixHall · 11/05/2017 13:57
She is bril.
SirVixofVixHall · 11/05/2017 13:59
And this one.
LumelaMme · 11/05/2017 14:03
Grin Never heard him called THAT before!
LumelaMme · 11/05/2017 14:04

Sorry, that was too @Allergy.

terrylene · 11/05/2017 14:13

Doesn't surprise me - Labour party has always been misogynistic. That is why Barbara Castle never got to be the first woman PM.

Allergychange · 11/05/2017 14:17

😂😂 is t Bernard Jenkins? Or is it a stock Tory reply?!

LumelaMme · 11/05/2017 14:22

@Allergy, have pm'ed you.

SirVixofVixHall · 11/05/2017 14:36

V much agree with the coment on the website linked to by BBC - "Accepting and respecting someone as gay or lesbian is not the same as accepting that a boy is a girl".

GoatsFeet · 11/05/2017 14:48

Also - hate crime? WTAF?? When we haven't yet got "misogynist hate crime" or "mental health hate crime"

Oh, who cares about women or nutters? We all know women are nutters anyway. Because Hormones.

SirVixofVixHall · 11/05/2017 15:21

Goats - passes Cake Gin raises glass in fellowship.

GoatsFeet · 11/05/2017 15:41

Bit early for me for the Gin so Brew and Cake backatcha

Wine when I get home from work at about 9pm tonight

GoatsFeet · 11/05/2017 15:44

Perhaps the trans lobby should focus their campaigns on addressing violence against trans people rather than access to women's spaces? We really could do with some help addressing the huge problem of male violence!

Indeed.

From memory, most violence against transwomen is perpetrated by men. If male lavatories are so unsafe, why not focus on that problem?

phoolani · 11/05/2017 15:56

Can anybody point me to the Wonen's Equality party stance on gender identity? I googled but got nuttin'.

Laurapalmer90 · 11/05/2017 16:12

Phoolani, they do have a manifesto on their website but I can't find it right now. Here is the Mumsnet webchat with Sophie Walker in which she talks about her stance on gender identity. HTH. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/2617026-Webchat-with-Sophie-Walker-leader-of-the-Womens-Equality-Party-and-London-Mayor-candidate-Tuesday-19-April-at-noon?pg=1&messages=100

morningrunner · 11/05/2017 16:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BigDeskBob · 11/05/2017 16:21

And what's the definition of 'reasonable', morningrunner?

morningrunner · 11/05/2017 16:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BigDeskBob · 11/05/2017 16:37

I don't believe in discriminating against anyone either. I just want women and girls to both feel and be safe.

WhereYouLeftIt · 11/05/2017 17:53

For comparison, here is the policy of The Green Party, copied from policy.greenparty.org.uk/rr.html. I have bolded the parts I consoder particularly problematic (although all of it is based on magical thinking).

Trans rights

RR520 The Green Party recognises that there are many gender identities that are within, and outside of, the traditional gender binary of man and woman. The Green Party recognises that trans men are men, trans women are women, and that non-binary identities exist and are valid. We shall respect transgender and non-binary people's identities as real. The Green Party shall include, and push for further acceptance of, transgender and non-binary people within all areas of society.

RR521 The Green Party supports the removal of the “spousal veto”, where trans individuals require written permission from their partner for their marriage to continue if they obtain a gender recognition certificate.

RR522 The process of transitioning through the NHS should empower rather than demean trans people. Gender Identity Clinics should consult service users on how to better recognise trans people's own expertise and experience in service provision.

RR523 The NHS should better recognise the increasing need for Gender Identity Clinics and increase service provision, across the country

RR524 The NHS should remove barriers to accessing services for trans people, with thorough review of access to services for Children and Young People and for those who have self prescribed or self funded gender treatment in the UK or abroad

RR525 The Green Party would push for root and branch efforts to address transphobia in society, initiating public education programs both in schools and wider society. Current anti-discrimination legislation should be reviewed so as to provide protection to all trans individuals. Current exemptions to anti-discrimination legislation should be scrapped

RR526 A Green Government would review the Gender Recognition Act 2004, the Equalities Act 2010 and the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act 2013 as they contain significant flaws that discriminate against some Trans people and thus they are not fit-for-purpose.

The Green Party recognises the following issues and would ensure the reviews of the acts outlined above resolves the following issues:
• There is currently NO legal recognition for non-binary people
There is currently NO legal recognition for trans youth (trans people under the age of 18)
• There is no provision for the alteration of birth certificates for intersex people
• Married trans people in England require permission from their spouse before gaining Legal Recognition (the spousal veto)
• Trans people are often forced to conform to stereotypical gender roles before being able to transition
There are few protections for trans people to access services and gendered spaces (such as toilets, sporting facilities or hospitals) that match their affirmed gender.

In sport, trans people are often ‘outed’, subjected to humiliating treatment, forced to provide unnecessary medical details and proofs of ‘genital surgeries’ that have no relevance to the stated aim of ‘ensuring that all of the same gender compete on a level playing field’. This is due to the extensive amount of exemptions contained within the existing Gender Recognition Act, not least of which is that a trans person’s birth certificate does not have the same legal standing as a cis person’s.

SirVixofVixHall · 11/05/2017 18:01

I'd voted Green for decades. I don't now, and that above is the reason why. Absolute nonsense all of it. Who on God's earth has a "binary identity" ?Have you ever met anyone whose tastes, manner of dress, interests, hobbies etc etc were all purely feminine or purely masculine? It is just insane. We are all non binary, except in sex.

Sofabitch · 11/05/2017 18:10

You all know transgender works both ways right?