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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBUto feel so angry with Dd's Uni

377 replies

Booklover123 · 09/05/2017 22:46

Dd taking her finals, first exam was today. Phoned me straight after distraught, as they had failed to provide the necessary appendices. Entire room were in tears, invigilators contacted dpt but to no avail.Were told to continue exam which they could not without the supplementary information! Tonight dd has received an e mail from said dpt "apologising for the error and mistake will be rectified". But how wii this be done? AIBU to be absolutely fuming with this utter balls up happening?

OP posts:
alreadytaken · 10/05/2017 06:26

YANBU to be fuming - it's a really serious balls up, not a minor mistake. In industry that sort of mistake quite possibly would result in the sack for someone, why shouldnt it at a university?

BoneyBackJefferson · 10/05/2017 06:40

The results and problem in the exam will be discussed at the exam committee where all the results are discussed and approved before being awarded. A decision will be made so that students don't lose out

Do you mean that the lecturers for the course will give marks based on the work that they have marked for previous modules?

Or that an (allegedly) impartial group will assess the probability of how well the students would have done on the test and award marks?

Booklover123 · 10/05/2017 06:47

I am worried that it will be swept under the carpet and dealt within the department.

OP posts:
MargotMoon · 10/05/2017 06:47

I think the PPs who are scoffing at the notion of 20-somethings in tears at the situation - have a heart FFS! It's your final exams and you are told to continue writing despite it being impossible to answer the paper?! Of course you'd be upset. Imagine going to your job and being told to do it without an essential piece of kit and thinking that you had to try and carry on or you wouldn't get paid? That would have me in tears.

I17neednumbers · 10/05/2017 06:52

"And I profoundly disagree that a degree is a "business transaction" and a "big purchase". I consider myself to be an educator, not a vendor. The words "business" and "education" do not belong in the same sentence. They are incompatible."

But really if someone is paying around £40k - £50k (including maintenance), that is a business transaction. The lecturers may not like it, the students may not like it, but you can't really expect people to pay those amounts and not regard it as what it is - a business transaction.

Iamastonished · 10/05/2017 06:52

I' m staggered at the lack of empathy shown on this thread. You are a hard hearted lot. DD is only 16, but something like this would have thrown her. You must all have very resilient, self confident children. Not everyone is like that.

You don't stop worrying about your children when they are older you know. When DD is distressed I worry about her. It's natural, it's called being a mother.

I17neednumbers · 10/05/2017 07:02

"And they go on about "Baby Boomers" in a derogatory way a lot of them , At least the BBs had some kind of backbone . In tears ? Dear oh dear"

Loads of crying went on when I (a bb) was at university (including by me!) and over things that were considerably less serious than this - a final exam. Also, what's so contemptible about crying anyway - it's actually quite good for you I thought?

PossumInAPearTree · 10/05/2017 07:04

When I was at uni they lost one of my exam papers.

First I knew was when my name was up on the list as having failed the exam. Lecturer said I hadn't sat the exam. I proved by way of my registration slip that I had so they said i could have a pass ark of a C.

I said that wasn't good enough and my essay had been a B. So I wanted a B for my exam. They agreed.

Then a week later they found my exam and I'd got an A.

Never told my parents, but then I guess communication wasn't as easy.....you used to queue up once a week max for the pay phone to ring home.

Bluntness100 · 10/05/2017 07:04

The uni will rectify it, it's their reputation on the line as well as the students. I would wait and see how they aim to do this. I'm also fairly sure they will put some controls in place to ensure it doesn't happen again.

I can see why the students were upset, I doubt the whole room was crying though, probably some of the more immature /stressed/dramatic students.

Mummyoflittledragon · 10/05/2017 07:07

It must have been awful for them all. And I would have cried at the stress and frustration of not being believed. It wasn't about the missing information, rather about the total lack of control over the situation.

All I can say is this will definitely be rectified to the safisfaction of the students. It's in the interest of the university not to receive x number of law suits demanding full fee reimbursement plus living expenses etc.

I wish your dd well.

BoneyBackJefferson · 10/05/2017 07:12

Booklover123

I think that the head invigilator will have to write up a report about the incident.

Having said that, it is very probable that the uni will try and "sweep it under the carpet" as they won't want it to get out.

BoneyBackJefferson · 10/05/2017 07:13

And I profoundly disagree that a degree is a "business transaction" and a "big purchase". I consider myself to be an educator, not a vendor. The words "business" and "education" do not belong in the same sentence. They are incompatible.

I agree that they are incompatible but unfortunately times move on and we are (in all areas of education) becoming vendors with clients.

Booksandcrocheting · 10/05/2017 07:30

yanbu to be annoyed this has happened, final exams are v important, so it's understandable that this sort of error could have students in tears. yabu to want the lecturer's head on a plate, or to worry about it being swept under the carpet. As long as the way the university resolves it doesn't disadvantage your DD or the other students, that's all that really matters. Encourage your DD to put this out of her mind as far as possible and focus on the rest of her exams.

rararaa · 10/05/2017 07:44

People are idiots for saying the students were soft for crying. These students have gained stupid amounts of debt for these degrees and spent weeks / months revising for this exam. If you went into an exam after all that work thinking you had a good chance of acing it and then a simple admin error meant you were going to fail you'd be gutted. the margins for 2.1 /1st are so small at uni, one exam could tip it either way. Even if they do sort it, what does that say about the level of respect at university has for you and your hard work? Also, they didn't know at the time it would get sorted. This is also the first exam where the tension is awful. and if my uni did a resit, it would be in August, lots of students probably have plans to go abroad in the summer, imagine having to cancel your holiday because of someone else's admin error?

iloveeverykindofcat · 10/05/2017 07:48

I wish some of my students cared enough to cry over an exam....

I offered 15% of a first year module for seminar work and half of them still didn't turn up.

RandomlyGenerated · 10/05/2017 07:50

Halfway through one of my 3 hr finals papers the invigilator, who was also the lecturer who set the paper, pointed out a typo in one of the questions - it completely changed the entire context of the question (qualitative / quantitative). Some of us had written it one way, some of us the other way. We were a bit Hmm and the lecturer said not to worry, it would be marked for whichever way the question had been answered so no one would be disadvantaged. That was that - heads down and everyone carried on with the paper. No drama, no complaints, no demands for the lecturer (eminent professor) to be sacked.

PoorYorick · 10/05/2017 07:56

The words "business" and "education" do not belong in the same sentence.

Perhaps they shouldn't, but with spiralling fees and universities having to do anything to secure income, nowadays they do.

If I'd paid thousands upon thousands to study for a qualification for my future career path, worked for three years and revised for hours and hours, and the examiners fucked up and weren't interested in rectifying, you can bet I'd be tearful.

HappyFlappy · 10/05/2017 08:17

I'm not surprised that there were tears - some of these students are so strung out with stress that all it would take is for the zip on their pencil case to break and they would be in meltdown. (I found this was particularly true with many of the Asian and Oriental students who have HUGE parental pressure on them, as well as an awareness that their families have paid a bloody fortune to give them this opportunity. But I can promise you that any student who has taken their course seriously and put the work in would find this de-railing. They'd feel sick with the thought that they may have to re-take the exam, for a start.)

Garlicansapphire · 10/05/2017 08:24

Shit happens in real life too. It will come out in the wash.

Foureyesarebetterthantwo · 10/05/2017 08:31

Student wellbeing services and counselling are stretched so much at present. There's been a horrible spate of suicides at RG universities as well.

This is not new, but the scale of the poor mental health of our youth should be worrying to all of us. They have been told that the only thing that really matters is grades from the age of SATS upwards, that there's no other path to success, 'everyone' goes to uni, and being young and not having experience of the world, they have believed us. The levels of stress, eating disorders and other mental health conditions are just too high.

So, this is the backdrop, and it's not surprising that faced with an unexpected problem in the first exam, some people's nerves were mildly shaken and they had a little cry! I cried for the first 10 minutes of the first exam I did for finals and refused to go in the room- I was overstressed, overwrought and hadn't slept.

Luckily I have an amazing family and have eventually learned that grades and education aren't actually a measure of someone's worth- but I wonder how many casualties don't learn that quick enough and end up with poor mental health at and after uni.

If our young people are babied, it's because WE babied them- I find all this 'blame the students, I was as tough as old boots' stuff really distasteful, to be honest.

OP the university will fix this, it will be a 'big deal' and the lecturer/admin in a lot of trouble- but it won't affect final grades, it's not allowed to.

MiladyThesaurus · 10/05/2017 08:42

I can totally believe that you'd end up with a room full of hysterical students in this situation. The last couple of weeks in my department we've been dealing with student hysteria about assignments. We don't even have exams on our programmes and still we've been dealing with students complaining that they're stressed and anxious (lots of 'it's affecting our health' nonsense) because they haven't been prepared to write a bloody essay. Apparently 10 hours of in-class assignment support means nothing and 'no one knows what they're supposed to be doing' because we haven't just written bloody thing for them. I dread to think what would happen if we gave them an unseen exam!

ShatnersWig · 10/05/2017 08:50

Laughed at madmother's comment: "Trust the university system - they will work something out"

That's the same university system that caused this cock-up in the first place. I imagine trust might be a little eroded!

Sorry, I think it's perfectly reasonable to be pissed off about this. Universities have three main things to do - teach, exam and look after. It might be a bit of an admin logistical nightmare, but it's standard stuff they are doing regularly, not something brand new. And yes, I think people are entitled to have a more customer mentality when they are paying £30k for their tuition and their exams.

Amazed so many people are being off with the OP. Suspect had it been about a 6-year old's birthday cake being poorly iced everyone would be in agreement that the OP was not being unreasonable to complain.

MiladyThesaurus · 10/05/2017 08:54

Universities have three main things to do - teach, exam and look after.

This statement indicates that you don't actually know what universities actually do.

rightwhine · 10/05/2017 08:55

They can't fail a whole course so they will sort it one way or another.

GoatsFeet · 10/05/2017 08:56

Another academic here to say that your DD needs to just forget about this exam for the moment, and retain her resilience and emotional energy for the rest of her exams. You need stamina to get through finals.

However, there are other marks in the bag, as it were, and so she will know that actually, these exams are not the only determinants of her whole future life and career, as people keep saying. I get strung out undergrads frequently obsessing about 2 marks etc, or "I really need to get a First,." No, you don't. Solid consistent achievement and learning not marks, is what you need for a satisfying productive ife & career.

It's important that those caring for 21 year olds eg parents, understand this and don't feed the hysteria.

OP if you or your DD want to be assured of the rectification which will happen, I suggest you go to the university's website and look for its examination regulations for her cohort (ie year of entry into the degree). There will be clear guidance in the exam regs for staff concerned with this incident.

As others have said at the Exam Board, academics will be absolutely clear that this mistake will have NO effect on the students' final degree classifications. And every university department Exam Board is formally convened, minuted, and attended by at least one (but sometimes several) External Examiners. These are senior people from another university who oversee a department's processes and ensure that students' work is assessed transparently, fairly, to a required standard, and in accord with that university's regulations. They will be told, and it will be minuted, about this incident, and it will be taken very seriously. The Externals may also comment on how their university might deal with such an incident. The Department Exam Board then reports upwards to a College or Faculty Exam Board - again, it is likely that if a whole module/course cohort is affected, this will be duly noted, and the actions to mitigate against any disadvantage to students affected will be minuted & actioned at the Faculty level. HE is a learning industry, and staff are invested in learning, as much as the students often possibly more so

I'll bet there are at least a dozen people all hanging their heads in shame - we do not like making mistakes and feel awful when we do, but we also aim not to make that mistake again. There will be an investigation of what happened, and procedures will be put in place so that it doesn't happen again. But I have to say, over a 25 year career, I generally teach & assess between 400 and 200 students each year, and up to 800 in some years (I work between a smallish humanities field and a very big one). I would mark at least two pieces of work from each student each year, so that's between 400 to 800 pieces of work each year, over 25 years = 10 to 20 thousand separate pieces of work in my career (of between 3,000 to 10,000 words each). And that's a very conservative estimate. In all that time, I have not once lost a student essay or exam script. So, you know, that's the pretty ordinary average standard of work academics do. Our ordinary standard of work is pretty high in comparison with the private sector, in my experience.

If this happened in my Department (although we don't have Finals in this way) we'd look at other marks in that module, and either adjust the marking scales or percentages, or keep the exam assessment in there, but award an average of other marks achieved in that module, if tis seemed a reasonable thing to do, in terms of student achievement. We'd then cross-check the marks for this module against all other marks achieved at that level (Final year) in other modules by each student affected. We'd probably also pull up stats from the cohort distribution of marks achieved in that module by past cohorts, to check that there isn't a huge dip. Most university's exam regs aim not to punish or fail students; most exam regs try to allow academics to judge in favour of a student's achievements. It's remarkably difficult to fail or even plough a Third, nowadays. Indeed, I often see threads in here, and public reportage about how we give "too many" Firsts, and Upper Seconds nowadays!

I think one thing that happens in these situations is that students almost fantasise that it was that exam which they were going to shine. Students often don't like us to award them an average of their previous marks. They also tend to obsess over a two or three percentage point difference, between their grade and a friend's, or between one assessment or another. In the broader scheme of things, these differences are not significant. And I often have to explain (I'm unusually numerate for my field, with a maths A level), the effect of arithmetic averaging on a wide array of numbers - they tend towards the middle.

Anyway, this essay is to reassure you OP that actions will e taken. Your best action for your daughter is to encourage her resilience. I do find students today really worrisome: very driven, very ambitious, but almost disproportionately anxious, dependent & whiney. It's a pity, as they are such wonderful, smart, energetic people. They need to realise they have agency! And need to develop agency. If a missing bit of an exam is the worst thing that ever happens to any of them, that is a charmed life ...

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