Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To feel uncomfortable about the Nazi symbols on ds's shirt and arm? (Y11 shirt-signing day)

155 replies

GoodyGoodyGumdrops · 08/05/2017 18:24

Y11s were signing each other's schools shirts today, the last day before Study Leave begins.

There's the expected complement of hearts and cocks-and-balls on ds's shirt. (Surprisingly little swearing.) Also many Stars of David - which I have no issue about, we're Jewish.

But I feel uncomfortable about the many swastikas and the number inked onto his left forearm.

Ds says that he wasn't picked out for the swastikas. Some boys were signing there name with one on everybody's shirt. TBH I don't know whether to believe him.

The swastikas are pure bad taste IMO. But the number on ds's forearm really bugs me.

I don't know what, if anything, to do about it.

OP posts:
Mrseft · 08/05/2017 22:06

Smitff I'd still be fuming over swastika's but there is a line between drawing a swastika and writing a prison camp number - especially on a Jewish - person's arm. The two together are particularly heinous and sickening.

mimishimmi · 08/05/2017 22:11

That's horrible! You should definitely raise it with the school. I get horrified when I see some of the lesser known Nazi symbols on mainstream kids clothing out there deliberately put in the design by clothing companies who ostensibly should know better than to try and raise that spectre again. Symbols like the lightning bolts, skulls and bones etc. Yet it's not personal, these are kids who know your son and presumably like him enough to sign off on him. So why would they do it? Is he upset?

DontPullThatTubeOut · 08/05/2017 22:11

I do not have a religion that I believe in, I find a lot of dark jokes really funny but this. This made me get a lump in my throats and a funny feeling in my tummy. I love history and I'm fond of learning about it, and this just doesn't sit right and rightly or wrongly, I think it's purely for the fact that your son is Jewish. It would feel weird on any child's arm, but one of a Jewish faith just sits a lot worse with me. They are old enough to know the holocaust was a real event, it doesn't matter what you believe, it was a real event that took real human lives of innocent people who had done no harm. I really find this shocking and honestly I fell I'd have to mention it to the school, if not to reprimand but to teach for future students that this is not acceptable.

DontPullThatTubeOut · 08/05/2017 22:12

Sorry for the spelling mistakes.

Crumbs1 · 08/05/2017 22:20

Very sad. Perhaps more constructively you could point school towards Holocaust Education Trust Lessons from Auschwitz project.

littleducks · 08/05/2017 22:28

@Orlando- I know.

I was asking if it was a Jewish school. The OP mentioned it was a state school but not if it was a faith school.

The Jewish secondary school nr here had very extreme last day of term behaviour in recent years. The students def had a craze/fashion for the star of David on shirt signing, I thought I saw a swastika last year or year before (but assumed must have been something else badly drawn or my eyes playing tricks as it seemed a bit bizarre).

I was wondering if all the students went home with similar inappropriate shirts like OPs son or if he had been singled out for being Jewish.

onceandneveragain · 08/05/2017 22:29

It wasn't a million (or even 10) years ago I left school and we had the whole swearing, dicks, handprints on boobs etc drawn on shirts - noneof which caused I or any staff or parents as far as I knew of to bat an eyelid. I honestly think even at that age we would have been disgusted if someone had drawn swazticas or concentration camp references on anyone but particularly a Jewish classmate. Obviously up to you how far you want to take it, plus what ds wants to do but imo neither taking it to the school nor the police would be excessive - it's a hate crime in the end even if meant as banter. It might even be a good thing for the boys themselves - next time they might make a racist/sexist/homophobic joke to someone who takes it more seriously and they could get seriously hurt/have consequences for future jobs or whatever

Moanyoldcow · 08/05/2017 22:32

The number on the arm shows they know full well the meaning of the swastika - you need to report that without a doubt.

BurnTheBlackSuit · 08/05/2017 22:34

I agree it's sickening.
Is it possible your DS was also drawing writing things like this on others shirts and arms OP?

Smitff · 09/05/2017 02:29

mrseft

WTF?? What line between the swastika and the prison camp number? What on earth are you talking about?? In the parts of the world that MN gets read on, both these things are very firmly in the same side of the line - the wrong side. How is the swastika any less heinous than the prison camp number? Maybe I'm being thick and missing something, please explain if I am (genuine question).

Sorry to pick on you out of all the people on the thread who've said the same thing. But I'm just agog. Truly.

(Yes, I'm very well aware that the swastika was originally a Hindu symbol. The kids in question were not using it as such, so not the point here).

Original poster
GoodyGoodyGumdrops · 09/05/2017 16:38

I've emailed the school.

It is not a faith school. Generally their pastoral care is very good and the standard of behaviour is also very good. Ds says that there were a lot of swastikas, he was not the only one. I sincerely hope he was not joining in!

I agree with Mrseft that, bad as the swastikas are, the number is even worse. The number dehumanised people, turned them into branded commodities. The swastika was 'merely' the trademark of evil.

OP posts:
Kennethwasmyfriend · 09/05/2017 17:01

Schools I know of have assemblies annually for HMD, teach about Hocaust in history, read books written at the time in English. Doesn't stop teenagers being arses. If 16 then the school still has some hold over them, as they probably want to come back.

Code42 · 09/05/2017 17:11

little KDS has had similar problems over the years - I wondered the same as you, if it was a faith school with children trying to be "edgy" Hmm That said, even taking out OP 's family history, it's not on in any way, shape or form, and I think it's totally correct to bring it to the school' s attention.

Chartreuse45 · 09/05/2017 17:41

Have not rtft so excuse me if this has been said but the Hindu symbol was tilted 45 degrees to make the Nazi swastika so they are very easily differentiated. I attach a screenshot from Google!

To feel uncomfortable about the Nazi symbols on ds's shirt and arm? (Y11 shirt-signing day)
TrollTheRespawnJeremy · 09/05/2017 18:08

That is awful :( and I thought my end of year shirt was bad because it had every sweary word under the sun on it.

Anti-semitism is NOT on.

JigglyTuff · 09/05/2017 18:11

WTAF? That's absolutely awful. Your poor DS.

wrenika · 09/05/2017 18:46

I'd be angry about the numbers.

The swastika is just a symbol. It has far more history and connotations than merely nazis and it's just childishness that makes them scribble them on. The shop my OH gets his tattoos done at does a yearly free/cheap swastika tattoo day - to help destigmatize the swastika.
But...kids aren't thinking like that...they're just being twits.

Urglewurgle · 09/05/2017 19:08

I'm glad you reported it. What a horrific thing to find.

They're teenage lads and I think it's likely they're just having a bit of banter and don't quite understand the gravity of the situation. I bet they 'didn't mean it' like that etc. But even if that is the case they need to be told, under no uncertain terms, that this is not acceptable. Ever.

The swastika is bad enough but the number turned my stomach.

Oscha · 09/05/2017 19:24

Holy shit. I'd be furious in your shoes. Your poor DS :(

Smitff · 10/05/2017 02:43

Omg - no no no no! There's no obligation for one of swastika/ prison camp number to be excusable! It's not an either/or!

They are both absolutely wrong. Both of them. There's no room for "kids just being kids and mucking about". Kids grow into adults, this kind of thing seeps into acceptability. There is not one way in which doodling a symbol so inextricably associated with racist, xenophobic, homophobic etc etc genocide can be excused as just 'being silly', especially when modern history is taught in schools. If they're old enough to bother toying with the swastika, they're old enough to know at least the headlines of what they're dealing with. Why would anyone want to do this, unless to be provocative in an unproductive, deliberately offensive way?

So, just, no. Neither of them, in equal measure.

SouthWindsWesterly · 10/05/2017 02:48

Fucking hell. The fact they sharpied a number on the shirt catapults it across the unacceptable line.

AgentCooper · 10/05/2017 03:31

Jesus. I left school in 2003 and nobody was drawing swastikas on people's shirts then. We did the Holocaust in history as most secondary school kids do. You'd have been looked at as a sick weirdo if you had done that.

shyturnip · 10/05/2017 03:34

This really happened?
Yabu not to report.

SuffolkingGrand · 10/05/2017 03:42

School should revoke the study leave of the Yr11s responsible and if there's a sixth form attached which they hope to attend, make it very clear that their places are at risk as a result of this incident.

BlueChairs · 10/05/2017 03:59

It's awful .. but I got a lot on my leavers shirt too ( not Jewish) I think it's just an idiot boy thing

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

Join Mumsnet Log In

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.