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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Calling pedants, teachers, wordsmiths and class warriors.

469 replies

shylock · 14/03/2007 08:22

I have a question.

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Original poster
shylock · 14/03/2007 08:53

They both want to be teachers .... (I hope DC isn't lurking).

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BandofMothers · 14/03/2007 08:54

i HATE HEARING IT, AND CORRECT MY 3 YO WHEN SHE SAYS "FINK" AND FREE (INSTEAD OF THREE).

OOps, sorry Capslock. Wasn't shouting.

Don't really care if others can't be bothered to correct it as long as my dc's don't talk like that. But then my mum taught us properly, and I got accused of sounding posh, just because I pronounced properly. LOL

Are they actually English majors??

NotQuiteCockney · 14/03/2007 08:55

Hmmm, I'd guess that part of their teacher training will involve giving trial lectures, and ensuring they are speaking Standard English for that.

Twiglett, what is wrong with dialect? It is how the English language changes. We don't speak the same language as Chaucer, and that's because of changes percolating through the population, dialect by dialect. Oh, no, wait, does that mean we're all 'bastardizing' the language, and should only speak as he did?

grannycrackers · 14/03/2007 08:58

perhaps they are trying to wind you up

Mossie · 14/03/2007 08:58

Of course, in a job interview, as per the example below (with which I x-posted) I would obviously use formal English.

Even there however, there is a difference. Like Shylock's students, my degree was mainly in English Literature. If I went into a job interview using the same style of language I used many years ago when writing an essay on T. S. Eliot, I sincerely doubt I'd be offered the job (although perhaps if it was a University Lecturer vacancy matters might be different).

I think people vary their use of language for the situation, and the people they're speaking with.

BandofMothers · 14/03/2007 08:58

If it's going to go down that road then perhaps we should all say, "Uggg" and "Aaaaahh" like the cave men!!!!!!!!!!

southeastastra · 14/03/2007 09:01

no it's appalling!

NotQuiteCockney · 14/03/2007 09:02

Huh? Dialects aren't quite the same as going 'ugh' all the time. They have rules and grammar, same as standard english, just different rules.

MrsBadger · 14/03/2007 09:04

I agree I'd find both sentences annoying on a personal level, but agree that written English is a different matter to spoken English.

When I speak I am lazy (or use dialect ) and hear myself say "I'm gonna email it t'you" or "lemme jus' read this first" but would never ever write like that.

Original poster
shylock · 14/03/2007 09:04

NQC: this is class dialect rather than regional dialect we're talking about, isn't it?

Yes, they are English majors. The first wants to teach primary, the second wants to teach older children.

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Molesworth · 14/03/2007 09:08

What's their written work like shylock?

Lovecat · 14/03/2007 09:08

Although I bow to no woman in my pedantry as regards the English language , I don't really see what's so wrong with those 2 sentences.

The first is the way that so many people talk and, even though it makes you shudder, it's not actually wrong. TBH I was half expecting to read "It's like that fing we was talking about last week when we was discussing somefing to do with history" (my emphases), which is far more common and far more annoying.

The second is bad grammar, but only one instance of it. Nevertheless, it does make me shudder.

I had the proverbial bullied out of me at school for talking 'posh' btw (essentially I had a good vocabulary and refused to dumb down), so I can perhaps see why students might modify their conversation around each other. Which leads me onto one of my biggest bugbears - what's so wrong with being intelligent? Why do children feel they have to hide their intellect or else get picked on? But that's another topic altogether...

Having said that, if they were writing like that in their dissertations, I would definitely take issue with it.

BandofMothers · 14/03/2007 09:10

I know NQC, was just kidding. I do think tho that the teenagers seem to talk their own language. ie" new use of properly. "He was properly drunk!" or "She's a proper tart!"
Or is that just round here?

MrsBadger · 14/03/2007 09:10

and I'll confess to having a personal fear of teachers with strong accents since my very first Chemistry lesson, taught by the first person I'd ever met from New Zealand.
She stood at the front of the class and said 'Chemistry is the study of Meta. Now, who can tell me what Meta is?' and I, as a know-it-all 11yo put my hand up and said 'Meta, like in metamorphosis?'

Of course she was talking about Matter.

I was mortified.

Soapbox · 14/03/2007 09:14

The first is dialect- but even so...

The second is poor grammar and should be stamped on from very high! No excuse for it.

Mercy · 14/03/2007 09:18

Agree with most of what NQC says. I think

  1. is just complete inarticularcy though which I would not expect from students.
  1. is dialect.

Where are these students originally from?

Original poster
shylock · 14/03/2007 09:18

MB

They will both get lower firsts, I would think. Written work more pretty average for the year.

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Original poster
shylock · 14/03/2007 09:20

Written work pretty average is what I meant.

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Original poster
shylock · 14/03/2007 09:22

I wonder if teacher training does make a point of standardising.

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Molesworth · 14/03/2007 09:23

"lower first" = "pretty average"

Original poster
shylock · 14/03/2007 09:25

London and Esses, I think.

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Original poster
shylock · 14/03/2007 09:26

Essex (sorry, large baby on lap.)

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Original poster
shylock · 14/03/2007 09:27

Sorry Molesworth, I meant they will each get a 2:1, not a First.

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Indith · 14/03/2007 09:44

No 2. is very annoying bad grammar! I almost had to kill my HV for similar offences yesterday. I don't consider that dialect, dialect includes things such as 'bairn' or 'tenfoot/snicket'.

Must admit to being guilty of No 1. I can't do the difference between 'three' and 'free'. Think it is because of having a huge overhang of my front teeth but nevermind!

Earthymama · 14/03/2007 09:46

I really think that it's wise to have two ways of talking.

  1. informal, dialect with friends and family etc
  2. Correct use of English, pronunciation etc for work, dealing with professionals

I know that when I went to university for the first time as a Valley girl I must have sounded so idiotic. I had good A levels but no way of expressing myself orally that corresponded with my written skills.

The first impressions we make are the one's that last, so why not present yourself as articulate and able to make yourself clearly understood?

My nephew is going through this; he's at uni in London and is obviously mixing with lots of people from different backgrounds. When he came home at Christmas one of his sisters was really upset by the changes she heard in his vocabulary and did all she could to mock him.