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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to refuse to cut down my tree?

201 replies

Ellybellyboo · 07/05/2017 08:48

I have a lovely old tree in my garden that my neighbour is insisting I cut down. We've told him no, but he keeps on and on about his right to light.

The tree doesn't overhang their garden at all. This neighbour is behind me. The tree is along the side of my garden and affects no one (we have a field beside us). He's claiming that it casts a shadow and leaves the end of his garden (where he's built a decked seating area) in the shade in the evenings

The tree in question has a TPO and we have to faff getting permission to have it pruned let alone cutting it down

I live in a little housing estate which backs onto a much larger one. Our estate used to be wasteland but did give views of open fields down to the sea. The neighbour in question applied for loads of TPOs in an attempt to stop our houses being built and spoiling his view so I kind of think tough luck

He's always been a bit difficult and constantly complains about anything and everything so I'm not feeling like I want to go out of my way

OP posts:
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woollychimp · 07/05/2017 11:57

Even if he gets the TPO removed he cannot ask you to remove your tree.

In situations where trees from someone's garden is seriously blocking the light in the neighbouring garden that neighbour can apply to the council to request the tree be taken down, however putting in the request costs a lot of money (in the region of £400) and is only granted after the council have investigated and in extreme cases, which this clearly isn't.

We were in a similar situation to you - once our neighbour realised that he would have pay to put in the request he backed down .

Jux · 07/05/2017 11:58

I suppose you could have it pollarded, at his expense.

NavyandWhite · 07/05/2017 12:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ExplodedCloud · 07/05/2017 12:04

No. No she couldnt. There's a TPO.

MrsEricBana · 07/05/2017 12:05

OP When you say "he started up again last night"- how does he approach you if he lives behind? Shout over fence? You must just ignore him now. It sounds like harassment to me.

GrumpyOldBag · 07/05/2017 12:08

Most trees are very important for biodiversity and the environment. There's a good reason TPOs exist. They also soak up rainfall, so, it's possible that if you got rid of the tree it could create flooding issues.

And your neighbour has no right to light.

FrenchLavender · 07/05/2017 12:11

He wasn't bothered about the shadow it cast on his garden when he applied for the TPO to protect his view.

Right, so presumably the TPO was put on the existing tree/s by him and other neighbours in the hope of stopping the development going ahead, but they kept the trees and just built around them?

So the tree wasn't an issue when it was in a field and he was fighting to keep it there in the hope of stopping development, but it is an issue now your garden has been built around it? He's moving goalposts all over the shop isn't he?

In that case I think you can safely ignore him. Even if your tree is blocking the light in a part of his garden, there is no right to sunlight in your garden. You might argue that their should be, but there isn't.

I understand it must be horrible having your view/space/privacy/light invaded by further development on your doorstep, but unfortunately there is nothing he can do about this, and he just needs to suck it up or move.

FrenchLavender · 07/05/2017 12:13

And yes, if he wants it pollarded he can apply for the council licence and pay to get it done, but only if you are happy for it to go ahead. You shouldn't feel obliged if it's of no benefit to you.

Silvercatowner · 07/05/2017 12:14

I don't understand why you are even engaging with this person. Do the stuck record and say 'no'.

FrenchLavender · 07/05/2017 12:23

As he applied for the TPO can he apply to have it removed?

As far as I know the only way to get a TPO removed is if the tree is diseased and/or a danger to the public, so too close to a public highway for example. That's the whole point of a TPO. And besides, it's not his tree, so he can't do anything at all.

Even if he states that it is a risk to him (blowing over onto his property) all you have to do is show that you are covered by insurance and have carried out appropriate checks to assess risk. He cannot insist that you remove it, although I think the council could if it was diseased in a way that was likely to spread to the other trees.

What if he damages the tree? It's in your garden, away from his boundary. How is he going to touch it?

MrsEricBana · 07/05/2017 12:23

Yes, just say no. It's your tree AND it has a TPO.

offblackeggshell · 07/05/2017 13:05

To pp who suggested a light prune - one of our neighbours has applied for permission to do just that every other year for the 20 years they have lived in their house and the council has only allowed it once. The tree now has leaf miner and a fungal infestation (I know neither fatal, but ugly) and the council rejected their request again.

SnickersWasAHorse · 07/05/2017 13:11

If the situation was reversed and the tree was casting shade over YOUR garden, what would you regard as a reasonable response from your neighbour?

The tree was there before his he was. When there are trees nearby then you understand there will be shade a leaves.
This is my garden. I live with the shade. I love the trees.

to refuse to cut down my tree?
Original poster
Ellybellyboo · 07/05/2017 13:50

Thanks all!

We've already cut the tree back as far as we are allowed a few months ago. We can't take any more off yet. I doubt we'd even get permission to do it again next year.

The tree does cast a shadow in parts of our garden throughout the day. We just move around it.

It doesn't cast a shadow in his garden all day, just the evenings.

The tree is in my garden, but he can get access to it through the field next door if he was that desperate. He could climb over our back gate while we were at work for that matter.

OP posts:
Original poster
Ellybellyboo · 07/05/2017 14:17

Right, so presumably the TPO was put on the existing tree/s by him and other neighbours in the hope of stopping the development going ahead, but they kept the trees and just built around them?

So the tree wasn't an issue when it was in a field and he was fighting to keep it there in the hope of stopping development, but it is an issue now your garden has been built around it? He's moving goalposts all over the shop isn't he?

Sorry, missed this earlier, but yes, this is exactly it.

Anyway, just been out in the garden for cup of tea and a quick fag when he fecking coo-eee-d me.

Lost my temper and was a bit arsey with him. He's going to talk to his solicitor.

OP posts:
ChardonnayKnickertonSmythe · 07/05/2017 14:21

Arse.

Frillyhorseyknickers · 07/05/2017 14:27

It's for him to prove his right to light and until then you don't need to do anything.

If it were me, I would email your local tree officer or conservation officer at the council and state that this tree with TPO is on your land and your neighbour insists it is cut down. That way, if anything mysteriously happens to the tree, you have already raised the issue with the council. I'm a surveyor and I sometimes deal with neighbour disputes over trees. You would be surprised the amount of idiots who try to kill them with a copper nail. 🙄

Katie6448 · 07/05/2017 14:36

Arb officer for the council here.

Lot of well intentioned misinformation on this thread. Just to clear up, a tree having a TPO on it doesn't prevent works or even felling in some cases, but you do need consent from the council regardless of how minor you believe the work to be. The likelihood of being allowed to fell depends on a lot of factors including amenity value and condition/health of the tree. It also greatly depends on the nature of the order, whether it is on an individual tree or is an area or group order. I work for a district that has a massive area TPO which covers a geographical area bigger than the conservation area nearby. So that is certainly relevant.

That said, since you don't want to do anything with the tree, the position you are in is that the neighbour has the right to apply to the council for permission to fell the tree (or for minor works etc) but even the council can't give consent for the neighbour to come into your garden to fell it, which in effect puts you in the controlling position which you probably already know. You do not need to be the landowner to ask for consent but you do need the permission of the landowner in order for consented work to go ahead. Exception to this would be if the tree was presenting a danger in which case some authorities will compel you to perform the necessary work/felling.

Your neighbour does have the right to cut back any overhang but with that, he needs the councils consent and has to be mindful not to unbalance the tree and can only do so up to a certain height.

With regards to removing TPOs, strictly speaking this isn't correct. Councils resurvey TPOs periodically (this is not frequent in my experience) and may decide that the TPO is not appropriate anymore for several reasons. But if a TPO'd tree is felled, even if this is an individual order on a single tree this doesn't remove the order. It stays in place and allows the council to request a suitable replacement tree.

Hope that helps, happy to attempt to answer any questions!

Katie6448 · 07/05/2017 14:39

Sorry, just noticed this comment. That's not quite correct, tree surgeon doesn't need to be involved at this stage. Homeowner/resident can liaise directly with the council. Council may request proof of why you want the work done and this is where it's helpful to have a tree surgeon or surveyor involved but it's not actually required.

to refuse to cut down my tree?
Gartenzwerg · 07/05/2017 14:49

Let him talk to his lawyer. It will now cost him money to be told that there is nothing he can do to compel you to cut down the tree.

Original poster
Ellybellyboo · 07/05/2017 14:50

Thank you!

The tree is perfectly healthy. We always get a tree surgeon to do any work on it. It doesn't overhang his garden at all

I don't actually know if it's individual or group TPO. I think it's individual but I'll have to find out for sure. There are 12 trees with TPOs in total and we all have to apply separately for permission to do any work.

I know we are totally in control as to whether the tree comes down, but the TPO means I can't cut it down. He'll just up the nagging if it was just a case of won't and he's pissing me off enough about it at the moment

OP posts:
liviadrusilla · 07/05/2017 14:51

WTF? What does he think his solicitor will do? Now that he's said that you hopefully will feel no guilt at completely ignoring him!

NightWanderer · 07/05/2017 14:55

Lost my temper and was a bit arsey with him. He's going to talk to his solicitor.

Good!

The solicitor will tell him he's bonkers.

Original poster
Ellybellyboo · 07/05/2017 14:55

Oh, god knows what he thinks his solicitor is going to do.

At least if his energy is directed towards his solicitor, he's leaving me alone

OP posts:
Katie6448 · 07/05/2017 15:00

It sounds like a group order you might have there. I really don't think there's anything you have to worry about here but just in case your neighbour is the type to get sneaky about this, I would email the council giving them an overview of the situation and just ask them to log what you've told them. If there is wilful damage done to a TPO'd tree they may well look to prosecute you and the fines can run into five figures. They will generally look for the guilty party but just cover your own arse on this.

(Secretly wondering if you live in my district now!)

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