Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2 3

Original poster

to think the turkeys aren't voting at all?

61 replies

charlestondancer · 05/05/2017 19:05

Like many I am dismayed at the election results and the gains by the tories. An area close to me is considered one of the most deprived in the UK and they have voted in a tory councilor!

I could call them all crazy for obviously voting against their best interests but looking at the voter turn out it seems only a very few people turned out at all to vote i think at best it is about 35% of those eligable to vote do so I just don't understand this at all. I think I would be able to better accept these results if I felt that I majority of the electorate was voting and this is what they were choosing but when its all based on such low turnout I struggle to accept it.

Should voting be compulsery perhaps, why aren't people voting ... any ideas?

OP posts:

IonaNE · 05/05/2017 20:18

Maybe the people have begun to see that the tories at least reduced unemployment, capped benefits and working pays. And those who could not be bothered to fill in even a postal vote, don't need to vote, really.

Blowingthroughthejasmineinmymi · 05/05/2017 20:19

The UKIP losses have cheered me up though, as the rejection of a party that wants to cut off overseas aid and have compulsory medicals for some teenage women.

^^ It was never ever embraced in the first place.

Its only function was to get us out of the EU now its dead in the water.
No surprise there.

CurbsideProphet · 05/05/2017 20:23

I work and live in Lancashire. The absolute only positive I can see is that we will now get more money from Central Gov, as we have been in the top 3% for cuts.

I'm also hopeful that Andy Burnham will make a proper decent job of being Manchester Metro Mayor and make a leadership bid in 4 years, to bring back Labour voters.

Notthemessiah · 05/05/2017 20:33

I like Floods way of thinking - take away people's opportunities, make higher education massively expensive but also required for all but the most menial jobs and then, when they can't do anything else, force the underclass to do the work that we all need someone to do but no-one wants to pay a realistic amount for (like childcare or social care) or take away their benefits so they can starve to death. If it means I pay a little less tax, my kids can inherit even more cash rather than having to actually earn it and other people do all the shit jobs then I'm all for it.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 05/05/2017 20:39

Should voting be compulsery perhaps, why aren't people voting ... any ideas?

No one represents them. Labour voters that won't vote Labour whilst JC is there for starters.

Corbyn isn't a chump

I beg to differ. He went to Manchester tonight to hold a celebrity speech for Burnham even though Burnham wasn't there as he had previous engagement and the local MP Lucy Powell hadn't even been invited!

Floods123 · 05/05/2017 21:05

Messiah that's nonsense. It's about pride in work. Any work it better than no work as long as you are fit and able to do it. Never been on benefits. Even when out of a job, found ways to make money. Once spent days sawing logs and selling them! Where did I say anything about taking away people's opportunities? Childcare is already expensive. Sorry messiah you are the problem not the solution.

IonaNE · 05/05/2017 21:22

make higher education massively expensive
?? Get a student loan, like so many middle-class students do, too. You will only have to pay it back if you earn above a certain amount. Tuition fee as an obstacle in the way of social mobility is just a pretext for the lazy not even to try.

take away their benefits so they can starve to death
Or maybe... get a job? And if there are no jobs in your street, where your nana and aunty lives, then maybe venture out and move to a new district? A new city? A new county? Even a new country? Like people who want jobs do?

GraceGrape · 05/05/2017 21:32

A lot of people in poverty, using food banks etc, are in work! If working people can't earn enough to survive, then the state needs to intervene, either in the form of benefits or wage regulation.

The demonisation of people on benefits by the government and in the media is one of the worst things about UK society at the moment. Does Channel 5 show anything without the word "Benefits" in the title? Doubtless, there are a few people playing the system, but the vast majority of claimants are deserving and in need. Personally, I would rather a few people were paid benefits that weren't entitled to them than they were refused to anyone genuinely in need. That seems to be an unpopular view at the moment.

Notthemessiah · 05/05/2017 21:40

How can you have pride in work when you have a gun to your head? When you have no choice but to do what you're told or you will starve? That's barely one step away from slavery. And I'm the problem?

I believe that working should always be better than not working - that people on benefits should never have a better standard of living than those that work for a living but should instead only get enough to pay what they need, rather than what they want. But forcing people to work or die (and that's what you're advocating here - let's call a spade a spade) - is that really what you think is OK?

Childcare is expensive? I guess that's why the people looking after our kids are all on minimum wage.

upperlimit · 05/05/2017 21:40

When people voted to remain or leave they felt as though their vote would make a difference.

If they aren't voting now it's because they consider their vote worthless, that it will be the same shower of shit regardless of who is running the show.

And I voted to remain but I really find referring to people as 'turkeys' objectionable. It's just fucking rude.

IonaNE · 05/05/2017 21:44

forcing people to work or die - is that really what you think is OK?
WTF?!
What do you think work is, Notthemessiah?! A pastime?!

2rebecca · 05/05/2017 21:46

I think mumsnet is a very skewed sector of the population. It has a remain Guardian reader bias which is not typical of the UK.
I'd never vote tory but I think Teresa May and Ruth Davidson are good leaders for the Tories. They are leading people in the wrong direction but they are getting on with leading people. Calling Teresa may hopeless is very inaccurate.

TessTube · 05/05/2017 21:50

The UKIP collapse hasn't cheered me up because they just feel Theresa May is going to do the job now.

The rhetoric going around isn't helping ime. People getting told anything but a vote for Corbyn means people don't care about others want disabled people to suffer and the NHS to collapse.

Massive amounts of people vote Tory and they can't all think like this.

Notthemessiah · 05/05/2017 21:54

I'm sorry Iona but if you can't see the whole higher education thing for the massive racket it really is, then anything else I say is just going to be so much noise. It pretends to be expanding opportunities whilst forcing people into years of debt (that most will eventually slowly repay) just in order to get jobs that, twenty years ago, would never have required a degree in the first place. It makes plenty of lovely tax revenue for the government and the companies buying the loans from the government down the road make a handsome profit, plus it keeps the unemployment numbers down, but is precisely of bugger all benefit to the vast majority of those paying for it and it certainly does fuck all for social mobility.

AllPowerfulLizardPerson · 05/05/2017 22:00

Turn out is always low for local elections.

And commentators are careful to point out that they are not necessarily much of a guide to the state of the parties for a national election.

And one big factor is the level of council tax. It tends to be lower in Tory-run districts. Lots of people vote simply on cost and perceived VFM of their local services.

fessmess · 05/05/2017 22:01

I cannot believe how many people on here believe the tripe the Tories and right-wing monsters put out there. There are food banks, poverty and cuts BECAUSE OF BANKERS! Not immigrants, people on benefits or the disabled. The Tories have demonised these people when it's THEM that introduced the cuts. And yes, I am proud to be from liberal elite.

IonaNE · 05/05/2017 22:03

It pretends to be expanding opportunities whilst forcing people into years of debt
Notthemessiah, there is no remedy against plain stupidity. I work for a big company in a paper-pushing job. I started along with at least 3 girls who had useless degrees: one in Sociology, two, bizarrely, MScs in Occupational Psychology. They were sitting in an open-plan office with 100+ people doing the same job as an apprentice who at that point had not even received his A-level results. Only they had all the debt. In other words university (including postgrad) was a very expensive leisure activity. The one with the Sociology degree was unable to explain to colleagues what "Sociology" was.

In my book you go to uni if you are set on becoming something that requires a degree: doctor, vet, lawyer, teacher, dentist. Otherwise you don't go to uni. If you do, that's your own stupidity - you can't blame HE that they've pulled you in. No one forced you to fork out thousands of pounds for a Media and Communications degree.

Notthemessiah · 05/05/2017 22:06

No I don't think work is a past-time - I'm just not in favour of treating people like crap and then forcing them into servitude.

Charlieismydarlin · 05/05/2017 22:09

Mumsnet is made up of predominantly liberal, middle-class Guardian readers who have no idea the sentiment felt in the UK at any given time yet who all remain genuinely shocked and horrified after every vote.

For as long as you berate the so-called turkeys, you will remain in this position.

Notthemessiah · 05/05/2017 22:16

I'm glad we agree on something iona - that the majority of degrees are a complete waste of time.

It's easy to say that you're stupid for going that route, but the government are selling it hard (opportunity for all) while at the same time making more and more jobs require a degree (e.g nursing). They have been sold a lie that a degree leads to a better life - shouldn't our government not be lying to our children, especially the ones from poorer backgrounds?

MajesticWhine · 05/05/2017 22:23

I completely understand people not voting. Local elections have very little impact on people's lives. We have too much politics and its a total turn off. I will drag myself to vote in the general election but I can hardly muster any enthusiasm, I can't even bear to watch question time anymore. I am a remainer and totally horrified and depressed by our politics at the moment. Possibly 48% of the population feel the same. Even aside from the brexit issue, the choices we face are piss poor vs utter bollocks.

IonaNE · 05/05/2017 22:27

forcing them into servitude
Notthemessiah, the great majority of people work because they have to: there are bills to pay. Yes, it is servitude. Unless you've inherited or made enough money not to have to work, it's the fate of everyone in modern society. (Apart from the UK where you can live on benefits all your life, for some bizarre reason.)

Notthemessiah · 05/05/2017 22:30

Charlie what is the sentiment in the country then? I think that is what the OP is asking here. Why do people seem to be either not voting at all , or voting against what would appear to be their own best interests.

Other people have expressed their opinions but you seem content just to act superior whilst not adding anything useful.

babybarrister · 05/05/2017 22:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Notthemessiah · 05/05/2017 22:42

Iona - I think your definition of servitude is slightly off. Yes, almost everyone has to work, but then almost everyone (at present) has a certain amount of choice as to the work they do and the contract between themselves and their employer (to varying degrees). The relationship may well be unequal but you do have certain rights, including, ultimately, the one to stop working for them - it might not be your choice of what you would prefer to do with your life, but that isn't servitude.

You're advocating removing those rights and giving people no choice in the work they do, or for who they do it for - that is servitude.

Flip

1 2 3