To think Labour will have to split and start again?

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

I'm not going to rehash the disastrous local election results as I imagine we've all seen them by now, but it seems to be increasingly clear that we now have no effective main opposition party

Even as someone who (usually though not always) votes Conservative I think this is disastrous as surely proper opposition to those in power is the best safeguard against extremism - something I loathe no matter where it comes from. We've also now got millions of perfectly decent people who probably feel totally unrepresented, which can be no good thing either

So what's the best way forward? If as it seems Labour are completely unelectable, and if those running the show are unable or unwilling to listen, is it time for those who favour more mainstream politics to split from the party and start something completely new?

I think a new leader would be a good start. Hoping Corbyn will now step down as he's clearly election kryptonite.

Agree op, I think the whole party needs to go really.

I only like Frank Field and Gisela Stuart and a few others. Most of them make my skin crawl I am afraid. Corybn, John M, Chuka, Dianne etc all need to go.

Well, it happened once, and that's the Dem part of the Lib Dems.

So I'm not sure it would bring about the result you want.

I'm all in favour of a new leader but who though? I'm impressed with Sadiq Khan as London Mayor and I'm pretty sure he has his eye on the Labour leadership job eventually, but he has at least 4 years left as mayor. No idea what could / should happen in the meantime. The whole Corbyn situation is heartbreaking - I agree with a lot of what he says but its all so bloody woolly and I worry about his arrogance and egotism

The trouble is that Corbyn will never leave, even if the results are terrible. I feel contempt towards the Labour front benchers who have been sitting on their hands, waiting for him to go away. It's ironic that, if they had split the party, they would have done well (IMO). Like blowing I like very few of them, apart from Frank Field and Gisela Stuart.

The question is how to help a more moderate candidate win at the next leadership election.

There are those who want an extreme left wing candidate at any cost and those who want a fair shot at winning the next GE, it's difficult to marry those sides together but I still don't think it'll end in a split.

New Labour got in to power by convincing the electorate that they were competent -yes they were left of centre but they had the business acumen and clever bods who could run the country and do it well. If Labour don't get close to this then there will certainly be a split - probably a new party formed by Lib/Lab politicians. Leaving Labour to go left left left. Tories will go right mopping up UKIP and a new centrist party has a great shot. 5 years time is a lot of time to build on it especially as Labour has ousted all of their most reasonable politicians from the shadow govt already.

The problem is that it would be really difficult to form an effective new political party without the grassroots apparatus that supplies councillors, distributes leaflets, raises money, campaigns on local issues and so forth. I wouldn't blame the more centrist Labour MPs for splitting away from the party if Corbyn doesn't stand down, but they'd have to be confident of taking that apparatus with them -- or joining the LibDems.

I think there's definite space in the arena for a centrist party. Labour has lurched to the right. Conservatives have always been right. UKIP occupying far right. Lib Dems are more centrist, but their strong Pro-EU stance isn't for everyone.

WOuldn't be surprise to see Labour fracture into two - a very left wing, Corbyn-ista, Union, Momentum style party, and something more along the lines of Labour under Blair/Brown.

Labour lurched left, obvs.

The nistake Labour made was to get rid of Ed Miliband before they had more strong candidates to choose from.

There were a few decent labour MPs in the shadow cabinet before they all resigned last year but they are keeping a low profile now. If only they had bitten the bullet and formed a new party last summer. They could have called themselves Real Labour.

it would be really difficult to form an effective new political party without the grassroots apparatus that supplies councillors, distributes leaflets, raises money, campaigns on local issues and so forth

I agree this is a key point, and since the unions provide most of the party's funding it would need them to come to terms with a great deal

I wonder if they're capable of doing that?

The think the HUGE mistake the Labour Party made was not electioning David Milliband. I honestly think if they had he would have been elected and everything that has happened since would have been totally different.

It's hugely unfair to blame the centrist Labour MPs for not 'just' splitting and forming a new party before now. I imagine they see themselves as part of the Labour party and feel some sort of emotional connection to it. Why should they have to leave when it's entryists from momentum that have royally fucked everything over now. And as others have said, it's not that easy to set up a new party.

I think a new Centrist party may be the only way forward ultimately though as Corbyn is too stubborn to ever go .

Not choosing David Miliband was the biggest error they could have made. I don't even mind Corbyn, apart from his worrying lack of concern about Brexit, but clearly the electorate don't like him. Not sure who I even do like now. Yvette Cooper perhaps?

Corbyn's policies are the only Onex that make sense if you are an ordinary person who doesn't want private healthcare or your child in a class of 35. Promising a living wage of £10 per hr and more affordable housing, I don't get why any young person wouldn't vote Labour. The main problem Labour has now is a biased press owned by rich people with vested interests and the nasty backstabbing from the right wing within the party.

Ones - sorry for the autocorrect.

A split Labour party would have shredded the left vote even more.

I'm quietly desperate for David Milliband to return.

I think even Tony might have a go after June

If Corbyn goes and takes Abbott and Thornbury with him then we may be able to get a sensible leader. Cooper perhaps?

If they stay on after what is obviously going to be a disaster for labour then we are in huge trouble.

Labour rebuilt before after Foot but who knows. It's on a knife edge I think.

David milliband no way his time is over and the press would be obsessed with him and his brother.

Abbott really is not doing the party any favours at the moment.

The main problem Labour has now is a biased press owned by rich people with vested interests and the nasty backstabbing from the right wing within the party

Whatever the rights and wrongs of it, surely their "main" problem is that their support appears to be collapsing?

Since people can't be told how to vote, and since little seems to change in the party's approach as their situation gets worse and worse, the point I'm wondering about is whether it's now simply too late for the party as it's currently constituted?

David Miliband is living in New York and is CEO of a humanitarian organisation. There is no way on earth that he is going to give that back up to try to sort out the shambles which is the Labour party.

Labour have been on mission self-destruct ever since the unions voted for the wrong Milliband brother. Yes, Corbyn needs to stand down but only a total annihilation in the election is going to achieve that. My concern is who fills the void after - if it's any from the shower in the shadow cabinet then the LP is DNR.

All first time voters I know are voting Labour but then we are in a Labour stronghold. They should never have tried to oust Corbyn over Brexit. Let things run their course and try supporting the leader that the membership elected. History shows the Tories always rule for 2 to 3 terms on average.