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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to ask Conservative voters what they think will happen to the NHS

117 replies

MyBeautifulSquid · 02/05/2017 16:19

if they stay in after the GE?

Not gonna lie...I am a Labour voter. Not wanting a bunfight or trying to goad anyone ...I genuinely respect everyone's right to vote whatever way they think fit. However I am genuinely terrified of the prospect of losing the NHS ....like most people I am an ordinary earner just about getting by day to day, I cannot afford private healthcare, and doubt I ever will. I have friends in America...I have seen how the US system works.

My Facebook is a bit of a lefty echo chamber Blush and lots are very active so I am constantly being bombarded with doom and gloom articles etc basically saying we will lose the NHS if Labour don't win.

Anyway like I say really don't want a fight, I am genuinely interested and do want to hear from the "other side" what they think.

OP posts:
ShotsFired · 02/05/2017 17:51

@MyBeautifulSquid My Facebook is a bit of a lefty echo chamber blush and lots are very active so I am constantly being bombarded with doom and gloom articles etc basically saying we will lose the NHS if Labour don't win.

To turn that on its head, what do you honestly believe Labour will do to "save" it; and more importantly, how will they fund it? They can't keep on spending and respending the CGT money that they keep banging on about.

It's odd how everyone talks about the NHS problems like they are not part of the problem. Of course we all are, just like how we are the traffic jam we moan about. My (free) appt to get a (free) Mirena could easily have been taken by a "more deserving" case, for example.

cathf · 02/05/2017 17:55

I get tired of the hysteria about the NHS.
Every time a change is suggested - no matter how small - the placards are out 'Save our NHS'
Changing doctors' hours is not going to stop the NHS existing, neither is moving maternity services for example.
It's all so emotive and I would like to turn the question round and ask what Labour is going to specifically do for the NHS?
As far as I can see, there has just been an airy nod to better funding, with - as usual - nothing concrete to back it up.
As pps have said, the NHS can not continue the way it is, but we need a sensible discussion without all the emotional guff that treats every little suggestion as if we are heading to armageddon.
Just what did Labour do for the NHS last time thy were in power - I don't remember a land of milk and honey when everyone was satifisfied with everything.

CinderellaRockefeller · 02/05/2017 18:01

Cathf - we're all getting a pay rise. That's about the only concrete thing I've seen!

PNGirl · 02/05/2017 18:02

It's emotive, I think, because it's a "worth" thing. The NHS shows us that we are all worthy of treatment, and that in the eyes of the government we are all equally "worth" spending the money on. We all know the Tories don't think like that, so it's understandable that changes will be viewed warily.

cathf · 02/05/2017 18:12

Well that's your opinion PNGirl. I don't think we all know anything of the sort.

CinderellaRockefeller · 02/05/2017 18:14

PNGirl - do you understand how little the Tory government (or any government) is actually involved in these decisions though? They are made by your local NHS or mandated by NHs England. Which while it may get pressure on a national level it's rare they would get nitty gritty on service closure. Look at things like the current children's heart surgery consolidation fiasco, that's NHS England making a hash of it all by themselves, can't imagine the Department of Health were pushing that as a winner.

At a more local level (e.g closing/changing maternity services) the government of the day doesn't get involved AT ALL. Unless it's an opening, then the local mp likes to come along and claim the credit, or it's Controversial, in which case the local opposition likes to lead the charge and get votes on the back of it.

icy121 · 02/05/2017 18:17

I heard Dianne Abbot on LBC today. If that's the calibre of the "NHS saviours" I think we'll be ok with a Tory landslide tbh.

PuckeredAhole · 02/05/2017 18:21

The population has grown since the NHS's inception. It has to modernise so this may mean we have to part pay e.g. pay for GP visits. We may have to get health insurance through work, which I'd prefer.

This is life. We have to pay our way. We have to change our mindset and realise that everything can't be free anymore - it would be nice but it's unsustainable.

I am a thatcherite to be honest and I'm not well off.

PuckeredAhole · 02/05/2017 18:23

However:

"Thatcherism represented a systematic, decisive rejection and reversal of the post-war consensus, whereby the major political parties largely agreed on the central themes of Keynesianism, the welfare state, nationalised industry, and close regulation of the economy. There was one major exception: the National Health Service, which was widely popular. She promised Britons in 1982, the NHS is "safe in our hands."

And it was.

Kokusai · 02/05/2017 18:29

Genuine question - which country health service do people who want a reformed NHS think is best for us to follow?

Kokusai · 02/05/2017 18:30

e may have to get health insurance through work, which I'd prefer.

What about -people not in work?

ChoudeBruxelles · 02/05/2017 18:32

I'd like to know what conservatives think will happen to social care as it is in a far worse state than the NHS and underpins so much health care

Angelicinnocent · 02/05/2017 18:32

Having worked in the private sector for a long time, I got a real eye opening when I started working for the NHS. Whilst I agree that the medical staff work long hours and do a damn good job, the amount of management staff is unbelievable and the clerical staff would struggle to keep a basic private sector job. They have no idea how the rest of the world works and have ridiculously long timescales to achieve the simplest of work. It's so frustrating. If it was privatised but funded the same way, we would get a lot more for our taxes as private companies have to turn a profit and answer to shareholders. They can't just spend all the money on consulting firms and then demand more money.

Lilmisskittykat · 02/05/2017 18:32

Personally I'm more worried for local government and policing then the NHS.

There is enough noise from people to keep the pressure on any political party to focus on this... policing and local government are my real concern and no politician even mentions it

ChoudeBruxelles · 02/05/2017 18:34

CinderellaRockefeller So many of the local decisions are a result of funding from doh via NHS England

We need NHS 2.0

scaryteacher · 02/05/2017 18:37

mother supplies and teachers for schools etc. Not where I taught they didn't. Dh reckons we didn't lose anything by my resigning and moving abroad, as I spent so much of my salary on equipping and resourcing my classroom, including buying text books. I taught in the Blair years, where Cornish kids were at the bottom of the pile as we weren't metropolitan or Labour.

As for €40 to see the GP - where the hell do you go? It's €25 where I am, and I'm only a couple of junctions on the Ring from you. Furthermore, as you well know, there is a safety net provided for those who can't afford to pay in full.

greyffinch · 02/05/2017 18:40

Sheikh population with long term chronic disease. The system needs more investment in prevention and early intervention.

I doubt the Tories will deliver that.

PNGirl · 02/05/2017 18:40

Yes, I do understand that. Not everyone does though. I was actually remarking on the previous post about why people get so emotive at the tiniest change to the NHS. People worry that any changes that even have a whiff of privatisation are just another brick in the wall of policies that will negatively affect the working class.

PNGirl · 02/05/2017 18:43

I'm not a labour voter, by the way.

icy121 · 02/05/2017 18:43

having worked in the private sector for a long time, I got a real eye opening when I started working for the NHS. Whilst I agree that the medical staff work long hours and do a damn good job, the amount of management staff is unbelievable and the clerical staff would struggle to keep a basic private sector job. They have no idea how the rest of the world works and have ridiculously long timescales to achieve the simplest of work. It's so frustrating. If it was privatised but funded the same way, we would get a lot more for our taxes as private companies have to turn a profit and answer to shareholders. They can't just spend all the money on consulting firms and then demand more money

This applies to the public sector across the board.

Angelicinnocent · 02/05/2017 18:47

Icy yes it does

sophie150 · 02/05/2017 18:49

Cinderella that's incredibly naive to think that nhs England and NHS improvement are not interfered with by politicians.... the level of micromanagement and pressure of NHS organisation boards by the centre is horrendous and frankly distracting from the day job.
Politics needs to stay out of the NHS - the last set of reforms (by Lansley- part of a conservative government) were massively costly, now being unwound at massive cost and distraction for commissioners. Total waste of time.

CinderellaRockefeller · 02/05/2017 18:56

Apologies for mild incoherence in the last post, DS was attempting to eat the iPad and I pressed send before I was ready

We aren't on NHS 2.0, we're on about version 37.3. And under the surface it's always the same. I've been through the last major reorganisation, and I look around and see most of the same faces doing the same thing we all were 5+ years ago, just with different branding and more demoralised and miserable. Total reorganisation of the deckchairs with nothing to show for it. That's what I see labour doing again.

Can't bring myself to vote Tory but certainly won't vote labour.

TheHouseOfIllRepute · 02/05/2017 19:02

I've worked in the private and public sectors. The private sector was just as I efficient
There are many examples of bad management and waste in the private sector. I don't know why anyone would assume privatisation equals efficiency
According to R4 today we pay the least of any developed nation for healthcare so I don't think we can claim it's adequately funded
I do believe it is taken for granted and a charge for some services may make people appreciate it
Unfortunately the Conservatives have lurched further to the right and would go for a US type model
I would hate the person who made the decision to profit from that decision. It can only lead to corruption

Twinkie1 · 02/05/2017 19:07

Angelicinnocent, the admin staff in the NHS are fucking abysmal I agree, I went from an investment bank to an small NHS hospital and was tasked with clearing out cupboards that held hundreds of patient files which had just been dumped because the admin didn't know what to do with them!!

I think most NHS staff would be out on their ear in a short time if they had to hold down a job in the real world. They'd be shocked that you don't just get 6 months off full pay when you go off sick after making huge fuck ups because you're a bit stressed and you don't get an incremental pay rise each year even if you are shit at your job!

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