School funding crisis

[Chilledpanda]

It's been hard to avoid conversations regarding the cuts recently. Friends with children in different schools are mentioning the schools asking for voluntary contributions etc and today I read about schools considering shortening the school week to save money.
I think both these options are a step backwards and a logistical nightmare for parents.
I know the biggest cost to schools is staffing but I think alot of money could be saved by schools adopting the American and Australian system of parents buying their own childrens exercise books, refil pads and stationary at the start of the year.
We can buy all these things relatively cheaply and would make a difference to school budgets.
Aibu to think this is an option?

it's not 'relatively cheap' to families in poverty

it's also doing nothing to address the cuts in funding - the solution would be not to cut funding - not to expect parents to cough up

maybe the starting point would be for the government to stop funding it's vanity projects

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/02/22/free-schools-costing-billions-whilst-existing-schools-fall-disrepair

I agree. I'm sure if a system like this was adopted schools would put a system in place for children from disadvantaged backgrounds. Maybe the children on FSM would receive books from the school out of the pupil premium.
There is an awful lot of children not on FSM who will be able to buy books etc and it could make a huge difference.
We're not loaded. We have to buy school uniforms in stages as we can't afford to buy it all in the summer. But if buying the essentials for my children would save teachers and support services in schools I'd be up for that.

Complain to your MP, especially if your MP is a Tory.

My MP is indeed a tory!

We're one of the richest nations in the world, we should be able to adequately fund our schools. Where is our tax money going because it doesn't seem it is funding schools, nhs, social care or housing. At least those that give a shit will not vote for more of the same on June 6.

In Ireland we also to pay for their books, stationary, uniforms, schools trips, annual "voluntary" contribution and also fundraise like mad.

I think your suggestion *Chilledpanda" is a good one. If your schools are struggling to the extent of shortening weeks it would make sense that those who can pay for their own books and stationary do. Here disadvantaged families get a Back to School allowance to cover the costs of those items I mentioned.

Hardly surprising schools are suffering seeing as they're stuffed full.
The local schools here (London) are full
Of children who are from recent immigrant families. Lots don't speak English and only speak Bengali or polish.

This must take a huge chunk out of school budgets, all these extra people and extra teaching of English

I know of a polish couple who's daughter goes to the local nursery and doesn't speak English although her parents do. They said they wanted her to learn polish at home and school could teach her English! Huge strain on resources.

Definately mint. I think it's incredibly selfish, especially if the parents can speak English themselves.
I only see this situation getting worse. I fear the Tories will win the election and that will be the end to education as we know it. It seems it is being set up to fail like the NHS.
Record numbers of teachers are leaving the profession. I fear for the next generation.

I would much rather pay a voluntary contribution each year/term to cover such costs than risk a "them and us" situation with who has the stuff and who doesn't.

Neither should be necessary though!

I look at the number of non - teaching posts in my childrens school and can only think that that is where a lot of the money is going. I went to a grammar school. in terms of non teachers we had the school secretary, school nurse, dinner ladies who also were the cleaners, the caretaker/handy man and 3 lab assistants and that was it for a 4 form entry school.

I know schools have been asked to fill in a lot more forms than in my day but honestly to me this seems to be where the waste is. and class room assistants. why? no one had them when I was at school with class sizes of 30 yet some classes have 2 or 3.

Not at age 3 it isn't. No ones going to be giving her individual language coaching, she'll pick it up by being surrounded by English speaking adults and children.

^Maybe the children on FSM would receive books from the school out of the pupil premium.
There is an awful lot of children not on FSM who will be able to buy books etc and it could make a huge difference.^

In theory, it's a good idea, however there are many parents, such as myself who are working poor. We don't get FSM. There is no way I'd be able to afford extra school books and stationary on top of uniforms, school meals etc.

I'm panicking about DD2 going up to secondary. I literally do not have the money to feed her. It costs me £12:50 a week to feed DD1 in secondary school. It doesn't sound like much but our entire grocery budget (inc toiletries etc) is only £35 a week.

If this came in, they'd have to go without school books, there is just no way I could do it. FSM aren't a good indicator of who can afford what. Lots of people not entitled to them struggle, badly.

No, exercise books are basic items that should be provided. Most people buy their own stationery anyway.

That's a good point Mum. The amount of admin staff at my dd's school is completely unnecessary. There's 3 receptionists. It's an average sized 60 place entry primary school.
We also have 2 heads of departments, a deputy head, a head of school and a headteacher!
My DB works at a very large high school and he says it's the same there and the people who get paid the most do absoloutely nothing.
I do agree with each class having a teaching assistant though. But no more than that.

I think schools could do with major streamlining of admin and management staff.

If a class has 2 or 3 TAs, they are probably assigned to help support children with SN.

Mummymeister- when I was at school there was less need for support staff, e.g. TAs, because children with SEN were not taught in mainstream schools. Nowadays the ability range is far, far, far wider and needs additional support.
Re office staff - are you really sure there was only one school secretary in an entire grammar school? In the 70s/80s at my secondary there were definitely at least four people working in the school office.

That's true Lost. We're the same. I think I could buy books throughout the year like I do with uniforms. I too am worried about funding high school. The cost of trips sound horrendous, we haven't even had a family holiday in 3 years!
And I don't even spend that on lunches for myself! I think I may need 2nd job when they get to high school

I look at the number of non - teaching posts in my childrens school and can only think that that is where a lot of the money is going. I went to a grammar school. in terms of non teachers we had the school secretary, school nurse, dinner ladies who also were the cleaners, the caretaker/handy man and 3 lab assistants and that was it for a 4 form entry school.

This is an interesting point. I have dcs at different schools, state and private.

The state primary school one of my dcs attends is clearly struggling financially - things seem to have deteriorated further since the school became an academy.

There are 5 permanent admin staff in the main office, two deputy heads, a head and an academy head, as well as various other staff. Another dc is at a private prep, which has one head, no deputy head and noticeably fewer staff in the main office.

At the state school, the costs associated with a large proportion of ESL students is presumably also very high.

There are 2 TAs in DS class but one of them in there as a 1-1 for ds to allow him to access the curriculum. The other provides general support to the rest of the class doing a lot of small group work and focused interventions.

The proportion of the school budget that is spent on books and stationery is absolutely tiny compared with everything else. Staffing will be about 85-90% of a school's annual budget. The other 10-15% will cover everything from gas and electricity, insurance, training, building repairs, cleaning and cleaning supplies, the cost of any school trips that weren't met by contributions from parents, classroom equipment, IT equipment, etc. Asking parents to supply books, pens and pencils, whilst a nice thought, isn't going to go far.

Dd has 3 in her class. They're to support the children with SEN 1-1. There is no general class assistant because of this, but from what I understand, one of the TA's helps the class because the child she only works with the child part time. If that makes sense.

No it didn't make sense because bad things happened to my good sentence! 😂

Instead of concentrating on how schools are staffed (many are understaffed incidently and need more support staff) parents should be asking why the government are not funding our schools adequately and doing something about it. Teaching staff have been trying to highlight for years the increasing problems in our schools- the lack of support, the lack of funding and decent resources, the pointless tasks that take time away from actually planning and teaching effective lessons, yet it falls on deaf ears because teachers have a "jammy" job with short 6 hour days and 13 weeks of paid holidays blah blah blah. The media and government have been playing parents for years and it's only now that parents are going to be potentially inconvenienced by shorter school weeks that the panic is starting to set in. Our education system should be amazing but it isn't, and it isn't due to poor teaching, too many TAs or admin staff. It's to do with the government's constant tampering with something it doesn't understand and has no intention of understanding. It's due to the lack of respect the government has for our schools and an unwillingness to fund them properly. It's due to to government just seeing our children as numbers to be pushed through the sausage factory as easily and cheaply as possible. So it's our duty as parents to start taking a stand and start supporting our schools rather than blaming them for how many staff admin and TAs they have. The government need to address this issue, not schools sacking well needed staff.

Our education system should be amazing but it isn't, and it isn't due to poor teaching, too many TAs or admin staff. It's to do with the government's constant tampering with something it doesn't understand and has no intention of understanding.

^^ This.

And it's not TAs that cost a lot; they get paid a pittance, work incredibly hard and can make a huge impact on learning.

If any money were to be saved from staffing it would be best taken from the layers of SLT who spend their days in the office fudging data which helps no one.