Facebook uproar about general request to respect privacy re fertility/ child loss issue

[AlpacaPark]

Sorry, not great title, but tried to make it clear!

I've just seen a post on my local FB group, where a mum ask other parents to think before asking if she has more kids, when, why, why not... Fertility issues, baby loss, upset parent...not an unusual topic, comes frequently on here too.

But good grief the replies! From throwing toys out of the pram: "well, I am never going to speak to anyone and be friendly ever again"
to the plain vicious "you have to be stupid to dictate what people can talk about", "the world doesn't stop because you've lost a baby" I am lost for words.

Bear in mind it's a local group! It's not remotely anonymous, it's not a big community either, there's no trolling on there. We can all say the wrong thing unwillingly, but to be that nasty? I don't remember seeing things that bad on here for example, is is just me or is this shocking?

Secondary infertility seems to be the one topic where people feel they have free rein to say whatever they like. If you comment that you are upset over a miscarriage you get told you should be grateful for the child you have. Same if you are trying for another baby and it doesn't happen.
It suddenly occurred to me that if a 'normal' person announced that they were trying for another baby, nobody would dream of saying that they were being selfish and should be thankful for the child they already have! Yet with people suffering secondary infertility, it is acceptable to be as rude as you want. I don't know if it is because people who cannot produce a child at will are somehow lesser or because people assume it must be your fault. Anyway, as you have probably guessed, this is a sore topic so I will now stop ranting.

Yes Morphene sadly they do and they seem to think it's really funny

but I think it's unreasonable to expect society from asking fairly standard, small-talk questions I do feel it's a bit of a centre of the universe thing and thats coming from someone who has experienced major tragedy.

Why do people NEED to know or even ask when you are having another baby, and why not? If you are not pregnant, either you don't want to be or you can't. Either way, the reply is no-one business.
I find it quite rude to ask random strangers about their salaries, their sex life or their fertility. There are a million other subjects before you have to pride into personal details, surely.

Ooo. Alpaca! You live near me! I was reading that thread like

Admittedly I am someone who only has one child, wanted more and am very unlikely to be able to have another one, because bastard cancer, but even if I wasn't I thought the tone was SO unsympathetic.

(Also, I don't know anyone where we live, because I'm new and I secretly, desperately want to ask you to be my friend, but I won't, cos it'd be weird).

Why do people NEED to know or even ask when you are having another baby, and why not? If you are not pregnant, either you don't want to be or you can't. Either way, the reply is no-one business.

Put like that, they don't. But - equally - put like that, they don't need to know where you're going on holiday, where you live or what you do for a living. I think that - as with so many things - context is king. There may be a perfectly reasonable context in which to enquire as to whether someone might be having another baby. It's not beyond the bounds of social wedding-type chitchat, to be honest. The issue is how the answer is taken. So - "do you think you might have another?" - answer "probably not/no" is probably okay if it's left at that. The problem comes when the person who asks the question proceeds to tell you how awful it is to be an only child/that you shouldn't leave it too long/that you'll regret it if you never have a boy etc etc etc.

BlueBlueElectricBlue
how funny! (not the awful bit, I am so sorry )
then you know that local people are normally quite friendly and very helpful!
I can't even wave at you, or I'll be forever know as the one bitching about people bitching about other people (we are 12 years old ) even if I am right.

Natalia I think what shocks me is not that some subjects can be painful, but more that knowing it is a minefield, some people refuse to take a step back and acknowledge that maybe they should be more considerate.

So basically we can't ask anyone anything just in case it upsets them? I don't get it. Anything can be a subject of pain for someone, the only solution would be to never talk to anyone until we ask, "what is it that offends/upsets or is a sore subject for you just so I can avoid?" You're still bringing the pain up for them by asking what it is they can't talk about. Nothing will work, people need to be less offended or explain why not to go any further (briefly and without detail) as it will upset them. Then people need to respect that and drop a subject once they know it will upset the other person, it's when people carry on that it becomes them being rude.

Which part of "the world doesn't stop because you've lost a baby" is only possibly going to upset someone?!

I do think context is important. Asking in general if someone has more than one child for instance is general chit chat. If you go by the assumption that you never know what someone has been through then you should assume that you should never ask anyone anything ever. Don't ask if someone is married/has a partner because their partner might have died in horrible circumstances/they may have been horribly abusive.

Never ask if someone is going on holiday because they might have an illness which prevents them from travelling.

The list is endless. But ultimately it comes down to level of intrusiveness.

People ask me all the time whether I've been blind since birth and I do think that it's incredibly rude, especially if they haven't actually engaged with me on any other level than that.

A taxi driver once asked my DP how he lost his sight, to which he responded that he was beaten as a baby and became blind as a result (it's the truth) and the bloke became offended that DP had been quite so blunt. Yet he'd asked the question. Presumably he was expecting to hear a story about being born with a condition or some such.

That being said those local fb pages bring out all sorts....

ultimately it comes down to level of intrusiveness.

I think this is the point. And it isn't a point about pregnancy/fertility per se - it's a more general point that people should be more socially sensitive and respect that some topics may be difficult for people and people may not wish to share confidences or hear their advice. I agree Alpaca - people do need to be prepared to take a step back. But surely the best way to do that is to deal with it at the time rather than in some generic, out of context Facebook rant? Someone asks you something that you're not comfortable to answer? Why not say to them that you don't wish to because it's personal and upsetting and none of their business? It's a far more powerful message, not least because that person probably will feel a bit embarrassed and will reflect on his or her own behaviour in the future.

BlueBlueElectricBlue grin
how funny! (not the awful bit, I am so sorry

Oh no need to be sorry! I'm a way on from where that poor woman is in the grieving/acceptance process and I've (insert superstition for luck of choice here) been all fixed up for over 5 years, so things aren't bad for me now at all. Sorry if my earlier post seemed sadder than it should. My DD is starting secondary school this year. If I ended up pregnant now, I'm not entirely sure what my reaction would be.....

then you know that local people are normally quite friendly and very helpful!

I know. Apart from (whisper) vaccinations that group is normally very chilled.

I can't even wave at you, or I'll be forever know as the one bitching about people bitching about other people (we are 12 years old grin)

Haha! Like I disapprove of bitching about bitching

Search for employers on linkedin & send them the screenshots of the comment.

Uppity why?

Those kind of comments are usually against most employers' social media policies & core standards. Employers want to know when staff bully on SM.

Primary and Secondary infertility here. Years of PA snide comments here and by this stage I cant be arsed to explain or justify to anyone. I just blank-stare anyone who pontificates on our only child status. They can fuck off to the far side of fuck as far as I'm concerned. Things like "how many kids do you have?" is fine, but shit like "your child must be lonely" or that we are selfish they can fuck right off. In many cases I have more one-on-one time with my child than they do with most of theirs put together, yet I'm the selfish one

Asking someone if they have another child is, at least in my opinion, a perfectly reasonable and socially acceptable question in the course of normal chit chat. BUT - and it's a big but - if the answer back is "no", then it is not acceptable to pursue it any further. At all. If the person you have asks gives more information, then you respond sympathetically but cautiously. So both sides have a point. You can't limit normal conversation and you can't expect people to consider 100 different scenarios before asking a seemingly innocuous question. But you can expect people to have a bit of tact and not to pry into personal details or offer their own unsolicited opinions.
^^ This

uppity that's pathetic.

@DontPullThatTubeOut - no, it's pathetic when people use SM to bully and abuse others. That's pathetic. Not ensuring the abusers get some comeuppence

I am very nosey and I used to ask people about these things all the time.

Until I started reading these types of threads on here and realised what an insensitive cow it made me.

Now I never ever ask anyone or regard it to be my business.

I can't believe there are people out there who will sit there and type "the world doesn't stop because you've lost a baby". What a horrendous thing to say! People can be so cruel.

I joined my local Facebook selling group recently and promptly left it when someone started a thread on breastfeeding which turned into a slanging match. Very rude people on both sides. I wanted cheap second hand baby things not to be insulted over how I feed my baby, thanks...

I was under the impression that you cannot ask anyone anything in case it offends. Nothing to do with bullying on social media.

Have you read the full thread? The abuse came after.

I was under the impression that you cannot ask anyone anything in case it offends

Pretty sure anything will be found offensive by someone eventually!

I don't think asking someone if they have other kids is outrageous, especially in this context, but if someone asks to keep the prying to a minimum to respect their privacy, the answer should not be "Who does she thinks she is telling me what to say!"

Unless you work in Early Pregnancy Units (and even so), not sure employers would think much about someone's opinion on the subject though.