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Original poster

"what a pedophile lion" wtf??? Narnia sullied forever

51 replies

Evelight · 22/04/2017 15:32

last night I was reading "The Horse and His Boy" to DS- which is one my favourite childhood books and favourite from the Narnia books.

I got to the part where Aslan is walking quietly by Shasta on the mountain pass and "breathing heavily".

DD14 saunters by and makes some comment regarding "ugh that creepy pedophile lion".

I keep on reading and it seems to become even more sexual (perfumed mane... glowing light sweeping Shasta up and he didn't know what was happening...) By this time they are both in hysterical laughter at that "inappropriate creepy old lion"

A part of my childhood is destroyed.

Do ppl feel Aslan the High King Emperor-over-seas is a creepy old pedophile lion?

Did ppl feel he was creepy and inappropriate when first reading the books as a child?

OP posts:
crazymissdaisy · 22/04/2017 15:57

lizzieoak I would agree with you, except Peter, who is older than Susan, is still acceptable, so it can't be as explicit as being now too old. I realise that's not the key point of course, but the other priorities that are specifically mentioned as distracting or distancing Susan from Narnia are all to do with sexual allure / adult femininity as it was seen in those days. It's not, "oh Susan's not a friend of Narnia anymore, she is so busy with her job as a doctor / degree at Girton / life as a typist". it's lipstick, stockings, boys (I'm paraphrasing).

UrsulaPandress · 22/04/2017 15:59

Dear god is nothing sacred.

ShiroiKoibito · 22/04/2017 16:00

i thought it was that Susan simply didnt believe any more - so a lapsed christian?

lizzieoak · 22/04/2017 16:01

Well Miss Daisy, it was the 50's. She was hardly going to be too busy in her pr job, or her work as an oncologist. I'm sure you're right about Peter, but it's been over 40 years since I read the Last Battle (I'm assuming that's when we're talking about) so can't recall myself ...

Pinkandwhiteblossoms · 22/04/2017 16:01

I'm patient enough with teenagers but you know, your DD wasn't funny.

HollywoodStunt · 22/04/2017 16:05

Got to respect C S Lewis for turning down a CBE

crazymissdaisy · 22/04/2017 16:05

you're right lizzieoak, I take your point: he was a man of his time and lived in a world without many women as equals!

RoseAndRose · 22/04/2017 16:06

I thought that it meant that Susan had chosen to have more regard for the trappings of a materialistic life and had thus abandoned Narnia. It wasn't that she became an adult, as neither Peter nor Lucy found adulthood incompatible with the ideals of Narnia (though of course adults could no longer visit, and had to find the Narnian way in ordinary life; not all did)

ollieplimsoles · 22/04/2017 16:06

I said groups of people not religions

You said 'christians', christianity is a religious belief that unites the group of people you were talking about.

Lumpylumperson · 22/04/2017 16:09

You said 'christians', christianity is a religious belief that unites the group of people you were talking about.

Yes. So that makes them a group of people.

Pinkandwhiteblossoms · 22/04/2017 16:09

It's just a gross thread, to be honest. Maybe teach your children child abuse isn't something funny and move on.

ComputerUserNotTrained · 22/04/2017 16:12

"Pedo" is a standard insult among teen ds and his friends, used in the most tenuous of contexts. I don't think your daughter is party to some insider knowledge or significant new reading interpretation of the Narnia series, op.

DAMNgina · 22/04/2017 16:16

Here's Neil Gaiman's response to the Susan thing:

grotesqueanddecadent.tumblr.com/post/21272759751/the-problem-of-susan-by-neil-gaiman

BMW6 · 22/04/2017 16:19

regarding Susan

The only reason Susan isn't in heaven with her parents and siblings at the end of The Last Battle is because

SHE ISN'T DEAD

They all died in a train accident but she wasn't with them! There is no reason to suppose that she won't get to heaven when she dies despite her "loss of faith"matter all all manner of creatures and Calormens entered the stable doorway.

I have read these books hundreds of times in my 58 years and in fact read them all again yesterday.

Lumpylumperson · 22/04/2017 16:20

C.S Lewis himself reportedly gave this explaination.

rubybleu · 22/04/2017 16:25

I only know its religious because it was our set book for Year 9 religion. Our teacher let us try Turkish delight!

VestalVirgin · 22/04/2017 16:33

That scene is not so creepy.

Yeah, you can read it in a sexual way, but you can also do that with Tolkien's characters giving others "queer looks". It is amusing, but we all know that is not meant, and moreover, there is no justification of pedophilia in such scenes.

What is creepy is that:

Aslan rips open a girl's back for ... basically nothing the male protagonists haven't done at some point. (I.e. not being overly worried what punishment will befall the slave who was set to spy on her.)

In another book, he bullies a little girl who is reasonably afraid of a lion, by lying next to the only source of water she has access to, and refusing to move away when she asks him to.
I don't care whether it is a religious analogy, he's being a jerk, and this "You have no right to be afraid of me" thing reminds me of other kinds of male entitlement and rape culture.

Aslan is also quite nasty to all those "ungrateful, evil creatures", that are just ungrateful and nasty because the authors says so, and who often don't show much unreasonable behaviour, if any, in the narrated events.

Aslan cuddling with kids doesn't remind me of pedophilia. Him being violent towards all sorts of creatures until they submit and learn to love him, THAT is creepy. And reminds me of pedophilia.

And the White Witch has loads of pedophiliac undertones, which I can only assume was intentional. After all, she is a villain.

Original poster
Evelight · 22/04/2017 16:34

""Pedo" is a standard insult among teen ds and his friends, used in the most tenuous of contexts. "

This. It's sad but true. They fling it around- I stop them whenever I hear it of course.

If you ever get a chance glimpse of their private messages- dear god.

I remember in some Eng Lit course I did umpty years ago learning about how religion and sexuality were very close, thematically, in literature. Same feelings of passion, rapture, other worldliness etc. It is not unreasonable to consider that while the books are an explicit religious allegory, that is not contradictory to having a strong sexual undertone.

FWIW I never thought of Aslan as either religious or sex-creep, however I never enjoyed his character the way I did Reepicheep (WHO COMMITTED SUICIDE), Bree, the Beavers etc. I thought of him as a bossy know-it-all "headmaster" type of character.

OP posts:
Fragglez · 22/04/2017 16:34

I read the series again recently - and for the first time as an adult. I had a very secular upbringing and i was really disappointed when i realised what the books were 'really' about.

It just felt like the magic was stolen from me, i can't really explain it.

Sad
BoomBoomsCousin · 22/04/2017 16:37

When I was a kid reading (and listening to) TLTWATW I didn't think Aslan was creepy, but I didn't like him. He seemed to set the kids up to fail and then chastised them for it when he could have easily just let them know what was happening. I couldn't understand why the children were so in awe of him at all.

Tanith · 22/04/2017 16:37

I think BMW6 is on the right lines.
It doesn't actually state that Susan will fail to get to Narnia/Heaven, only that she doesn't believe any more and hasn't answered the call to return and fight for Narnia.

After all, their parents never fought for Narnia or believed.

Original poster
Evelight · 22/04/2017 16:39

"I'm patient enough with teenagers but you know, your DD wasn't funny."

Well, she wasn't to me, of course, but I'm afraid she was rather a hit with younger DS. "Lion breathing heavily in the dark"- roll around laughing.

OP posts:
Original poster
Evelight · 22/04/2017 16:40

@Fragglez- yeah i was really disappointed when in adulthood I learned about the christian allegory too.

OP posts:
BMW6 · 22/04/2017 16:41

Quite, and some of the dwarves who killed the talking horses got into "heaven" too!

Pinkandwhiteblossoms · 22/04/2017 16:42

Wasn't it a bit obvious it was meant to be an extended metaphor for Jesus, though? I was brought up religiously mind.

I don't know, I just really, really hate the word 'paedophile' or 'pedo' chucked around as an insult and being found funny. Sad

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