AIBU to think charity shops are there to make money, not provide cheap stuff?

[TinfoilHattie]

Cards on the table - I'm a volunteer at a charity shop. One of the large ones which has branches nationwide.

We have one regular "customer" who is nicknamed the Smiling Assassin by the volunteers because she comes in a lot (3 or 4 times a week), smiles and says hello to everyone, then spends the next 5 minutes bitching about the prices. She rarely buys anything. She is of the opinion that our shop is there to provide her with cheap stuff. Cheap as in 50p for practically everything. She is horrified when volunteers explain that we're trying to raise as much as we can for the charity, and the best way of doing that is by pricing realistically - not giving away Jaeger suits or "mother of the bride" type outfits for £1.

She was particularly horrified and commented loudly on a bracelet we have in the cabinet priced at £170 - it's antique, 18 ct gold, emerald and sapphire, and has been valued by a jeweller. We would be daft pricing it at £19.99, even if it is the most expensive item in the shop by a long way

So anyway, what do you think charity shops are there for - raising money or providing cheap things?

(Disclaimer before everyone starts about their local charity shop which prices bobbled Primark tops at £29.99 - mistakes happen, stuff slips through the net. Even if the manager has a "price to sell" policy, she/he isn't going to check each and every item and some items will be priced too high or too low by well-meaning volunteers.).

I would never haggle.

I do think though that charity shops aren't a business in the same sense that a private shop business would be- for a start they benefit from lower business rates, no VAT, Gift Aid, selling free goods given to them and using volunteers instead of paying wages, except perhaps to one manager. So, they are not comparable at all in terms of costs and profits, which is why there are really large numbers of them now, especially in poorer parts of cities and in towns to the point where I'm not sure this is beneficial for the community as a whole.

One or two is a colourful addition to a town centre, but many town centres are mostly charity shops and coffee shops, and that only works for the community if the community values them and sees having them as a bonus (e.g. providing volunteer posts, filling up otherwise unused premises, providing recycled or cheaper clothing). I think this balance is tipping, as they are acting as commercial enterprises but less so as social ones, and although individually they are all worthy, en masse they are not desirable as a way to fill up towns.

Also, the calculation made by people who are watching the pennies is different in a charity shop if prices are higher- most people dislike the idea of returning goods to a charity shop if they aren't ok (hard to see, some don't have fitting rooms), but if something's £8 rather than £2, the donation you have essentially made for something you didn't really want is much higher.

So, charity shops do benefit from people's 'charitable' state of mind (overlooking slight flaws/cleanliness of items, not returning goods, having to sort through to find ok items) when they are in them, and if they start to lose this in people's minds, then their keenness to shop in them will wane a bit. This might not be a bad thing, as I think we have reached 'peak charity shop' in some of the towns around here.

Well clearly they are cheaper than a shop that has to pay business rates!!! That's not really the point at issue.

It's not for my convenience, it's a broad social good for people who cannot afford to shop elsewhere to have places like charity shops. Yours is a massively individualistic capitalist approach. Wanting there to continue to be shops that poor people can afford is 'entitled'? Give me strength. Given their position in the market and their history, charity shops have broader social responsibilities. It's not a very complicated idea: their role ideally is BOTH to make money AND to provide a social good.

I know charity shops are there to make money, but I do baulk and walk straight out, when I see Primark, or Asda t shirts priced at £3-4, when new they are between £7-10, and up to date style. Or a battered cd for £4, when you can get a brand new one for the same price in Amazon. With that bracelet, I would put it straight to auction.

Mine is a massively capitalistic approach?? Bless you.

My points are simple: charity should focus on its charitable aims. Just because they have identified themselves as a good cause, that does not mean they have to shoulder the burden of general do-gooder to al and sundry. Actually, in my area, there are plenty of local businesses (you know, businesses that make lots of money, who are in a position to help) who support local causes. Why plonk the burden on charity that's already working its ass off for a specfic cause? It's madness.

a charity shop is the equivalent of Debenhams in terms of the level of respect you should show. Why would you behave differently?

What on earth are you on about? I don't 'show respect' to any shop. I behave in a civilised manner, whether in a shop or the bank or the library, but I don't feel the need to genuflect to anyone.

good post Foureyes

Floisme has nailed it. If my charity's objectives are set down as X then I need to be very very careful about deciding that I am going to prioritise Y unless I can draw a direct line between Y and X. If my objectives are to raise money to fund cancer research, and you donate granny's mint vintage Dior suit after she dies of cancer then if I decide to price it for a fiver because some local people are hard up then I am absolutely in breach of my obligations as a trustee to make best use of donations for the sole purposes of cancer research.

Some posters have said that they think that shops would raise more money if they priced lower and that's fair enough. Businesses can make wrong decisions, and it's possible that lower prices would result in a win win outcome for some shops. But it's not normally cut and dried: a lot of places are struggling for saleable stock in the era of fast fashion so the option of selling five times the quantity at a third of the price isn't open to them because they don't have five times the quantity to sell. And yes some people would give more if things were priced lower, but others would be put off if they saw their donations being sold cheaply.

In some cases the charitable objectives include relief of local poverty and hence do legally allow you to sell at a lower price to that end. But even then there's an issue of efficiency. I recently bought a Warehouse embellished polyester top for a fiver in my local charity shop. This would be anathema to some posters but it was mint condition, it was just the right shape for a gap in my wardrobe, I approve of the charity's goals, and it was still a lot cheaper than the 10 quid it would have cost me in the sale. I live in an economically mixed area and if the charity had priced it at a quid for social conscience reasons then maybe it would have be a huge benefit for a struggling young woman looking for something smart to wear for her first job. But it's equally likely that I'd have walked in, pounced, and spent the four quid change on coffee and a flapjack at the cafe next door.

Which brings me to the other question. The charity's trustees have no choice about their obligations, but society has a choice about the way we treat charity shops. They get huge tax breaks but they're not always beneficial to the neighbourhood, and there are Keynesian objections to their use of volunteers and donated goods. And some of them are hugely inefficient at converting volunteer labour and tax breaks into cash.

Wow, that was worthy of deletion? Jeez. Ok let me rephrase, since some people are obviously more concerned about how others speak to them rather than how they speak to others. So: somebody who professes to think respect is an important quality should perhaps not speak to other sentient adults in such a patronising and superior manner. There, is that better?!

No I don't think your post should have been deleted Zoe

£5 for a bobbled hoodie! Bin id say. Doesnt matter its make. £5!

It sold, Londonrach. £5 in the till for the charity = win. Bin = tuppence ha'penny per kilo or whatever the rag man pays.

Zoe's post will have been deleted because she attacked another poster, rather than the poster's argument.

I didn't report it by the way.

zoe if the only response you can find to my logical arguments is to launch a personal attack on my 'patronising' tone, that's sad. I often find that people feel patronised when they can't find a credible counter-argument...

senua but you are implying that different types of shops are worthy of different levels of respect - else what does your "you're not the equivalent of Debenhams" even mean?? Equivalent in what way?? Can you explain?

And my comment (obviously) had nothing to do with genuflecting - it was in direct response to the OP's point about certain customers coming in and moaning loudly. It's rude. People (some people) seem to think that's ok behaviour because, you know, charity shops aren't Debenhams...

We have four charity shops on our small highstreet! The only one l will shop in now , is the ^local children's hospice one :)
It is the only one with decent prices, is clean and colour coordinated!
No smell and friendly volunteers.
The one further up the round wanted 15 pounds for an old denim dress from Monsoon!

MerchantofVenice's posts have saved me a lot of typing.

All those who say the purpose of charity shops is to provide affordable goods are just plain wrong. There's no debate - you're wrong!

I give old clothes / toys to our local social work dept, to ensure they go to people in need

I agree with three-legged: the purpose of charity shops is to raise money for charities. They are not there to serve the local population.

If you do not like the goods the charity shop offers (keeping in mind that they do not have control over stock but are dependent upon donations) or prices then, fine. Shop somewhere else. If you prefer to buy tat from Primark that has been manufactured by women working under slave conditions earning pennies a day, have at it. No one is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to buy goods from Mind or Oxfam or Scope or what have you.

senua but you are implying that different types of shops are worthy of different levels of respect

I don't know where you got that from. You have mis-read something.
I said I treat all shops (and banks and libraries) the same. But I really don't get the concept of 'respecting' a shop.

what does your "you're not the equivalent of Debenhams" even mean?? Equivalent in what way?? Can you explain?

Debenhams is a shop that sells a large number of idential, brand new, fashionable clothes, curated in collections, in a range of sizes, aimed at a certain clientele. Charity shops can only sell whatever they happen receive in donations, mostly one-offs. They are a completely different retail model. If I have to explain this then you are on the wrong thread.

It's rude.

Of course it's rude. I said that the manager should ban her. Especially since she never buys anything.

People (some people) seem to think that's ok behaviour because, you know, charity shops aren't Debenhams...

You can't generalise from one customer.
She probably has MH problems and is equally rude in Debenhams.

I find i tend to get annoyed when somebody replies to my perfectly coherent and polite argument with 'ah bless you', like i were a rather dim little poodle. It's unpleasant, self-righteous and disrespectful. I am willing to argue indefinitely about almost anything, but not with somebody unable to accord me basic adult courtesy. I haven't been deleted before in over 8 years on mumsnet, which should perhaps tell you something.

senua so what was all that stuff comparing trendy coffee shop with the greasy spoon then? Sure you're not trying a bit of backtracking here? We're not talking about retail models - we're talking about how customers treat sales staff. There's no reason the customer should have a detailed understanding of the business model, but they should treat all sales people with courtesy. If you agree that the people aggressively haggling shouldn't be doing so, then what exactly are you disagreeing with here? I guess you think that customer is an anomaly. I think not, especially judging by this thread...

Anyway, I think we've established what the actual aims of charity shops are. Any other functions are a bonus.

zoe yep - it's my fault you got deleted because I made you attack me personally.

I didn't 'attack' you as you well know - i called you patronising, in perhaps stronger terms than you'd like, but really that was all. You on the other hand were inexcusably haughty and superior. Just because you didn't happen to swear doesn't make it ok.

I have shopped in charity shops for many years and yes, the prices have risen, but then IMO so have the quality of a lot of their stock. One I wander round regularly seems to get new clothes donated from a big supplier regularly, probably end of season etc, as there's usually a hundred of one size or shade, they're priced cheaper than the original supplier but a bit more expensive than 2nd hand, fair enough! At the end of the day charity shops exist to provide income for the charity, they do this by appealing to the market of ppl who want or need a bargain. If they out price themselves then ppl won't buy, just like a normal retailer, and they'll have to do something. I've got some great bargains in charity shops but the same applies to me whatever shop I'm in - if I can afford it and it's worth what they're asking I'll buy it. But maybe in a charity shop I'm more inclined to pay a little more because it's for charity, I do donate old/un needed stuff when I can but tbh I tend to wear everything out!

I have defeated your argument on Debenhams so now you're pretending that you were talking about something else.

We're not talking about retail models - we're talking about how customers treat sales staff.

You may be. The thread and the rest of us have moved on. Is that why you are getting confused.

zoe because of a comment that someone made which implied that MofV has form for this, I did a search. You are not the first to feel patronised by her.

Actually zoe I don't know what delights you aimed at me... it was deleted before I got there.

Anyway, I know you were deeply wounded by the 'bless you' so I'm sorry. But consider this: some people are more offended by people's actual views than by the terms in which they're expressed. I think you think it's fine to say whatever you like as long as you express it nicely. I, though, feel that the view that charities should just suck it up and put shoppers before their own good causes is abhorrent. So there we are.