Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Homophobia, transgenderism and giving blood.

101 replies

BeyondUser24601 · 14/04/2017 14:34

I had a thought, and it appears I'm right - though im really hoping someone tells me I am wrong!!

Rules for giving blood vary by sex and sexual orientation, as you probably know. Men who have sex with men are subject to different regulations to women who have sex with men.

Now for the dodgy bit. A transgender male who is legally a woman appears to be counted as a woman in these regulations. Even when they may have had no surgery, so are potentially having the same varieties of sex as homosexual males, with the same statistically increased biological risks. (Eg afaik the regulations for homosexual males are because there is an increased risk of STI transference in that 'group' - one that would still exist in a Mtt person who has sex with males)

So, it's not an anti trans thread before anyone complains about that, but should a Mtt person be subject to the same regulations as males or females? Or should the regulations for homosexual males be lowered in line with women so Mtt don't have to be included as males?

Or, do you think this is right as it is?

Aibu to think this appears peculiar and a tad homophobic (because once a male who has sex with men is legally considered a woman and therefore "heterosexual", they are subject to less strict regulations)

(Of course the whole thread is pointless if an NHS person can point me in the direction of different regulations to what I read :) )

OP posts:
PencilsInSpace · 15/04/2017 21:45

Why are we assuming that transwomen are female, @Welshrainbow?

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 15/04/2017 22:35

Transwomen have among the highest rates of HIV, 22% in the West, 19% worldwide. There's an examination of the issue here.

WankingMonkey · 15/04/2017 22:37

Why are we assuming that all trans women are having sex with men or other trans women?

Not sure where this was said. A large majority of 'transwomen' (as the word means today...) are 'lesbians', so effectively straight males.

TathitiPete · 16/04/2017 09:34

I think if your 13 month old son was getting a blood transfusion roughly every six weeks you would be less concerned with people's technical 'right' to donate blood.

Pinkandwhiteblossoms · 16/04/2017 09:38

I think those things are pointless anyway. They rely on people to tell the truth. That's always going to be flawed. I would not want to receive blood that has only relied on people's word for anything.

Original poster
BeyondUser24601 · 16/04/2017 10:37

22% Shock that is a huge chunk!!

OP posts:
EBearhug · 16/04/2017 10:42

Who can give blood - there are also links to the health questionnaire.

What I donated blood is tested for - includes HIV, syphilis, Hep B, Hep C, Hep E, HTLV. They're also very emphatic that you shouldn't give blood if you think you need testing. I knew someone who had to go for further tests, because someone who had been given blood had then developed hepatitis - his blood had been one of the units given. He turned out to be clear, though. Also, that was early '90s, and things have moved on by leaps and bounds since then, in haematology and the donation processes and screening, and there's nearly always something which has been updated, every time I go. (I'm a regular door, 25 years.)

There are issues with how they seen gay men, though. Statistically, gay men are more likely to take part in risky sex practices which are more likely to transmit infections - OTOH, a gay man who is now celibate or has been monogamous for a long time is presumably a far lower risk than a straight woman who is promiscuous. But they have limited time to discuss people's health history during the screening part of donation, so there have to be some general rules.

MrsJayy · 16/04/2017 10:43

A male to female transgender person would be asked the same questions to tick on the form as everybody else if that transgender person had sexual intercourse they wouldn't be able to give blood not sure why that isn't obvious to you Op unless you have exhausted every other trans conversation so looking for another.

MrsJayy · 16/04/2017 10:44

Sex with another man i should have said

PencilsInSpace · 16/04/2017 10:52

The rules are different for men and women, MrsJayy. MTT are recorded as women and the rules for women are applied to them.

Elendon · 16/04/2017 10:57

It's all a bit dodgy isn't it? Who would know if their male heterosexual partner had not been with a sex worker or a man?

The only truly safe option of getting blood is from a lesbian. My daughter is gay and she was asked constantly to give blood, within the guidelines for females. She does it once every other year now.

Original poster
BeyondUser24601 · 16/04/2017 11:06

Only if you use the "old fashioned" sex -based (rather than the new gender based) definition of lesbian Hmm

OP posts:
Elendon · 16/04/2017 11:11

Well my daughter is born female. And I agree with you OP. But outside of sex based gay woman, it's all dodgy! I say this as a woman who has had blood transfusions twice!

grannytomine · 16/04/2017 11:27

'have had sex with a man who has ever had sex with a man, or paid for sex' was a bit of a tough one. It's not something I ever thought to ask any of the men I have slept with! Yes, how many women would know? I used to work in a vice squad and would occasionally pick my kids up from school and could look round and see women who had husbands who were kerb crawlers in a very dodgy area where the prostitutes were often infected with a variety of diseases, one of the favourite tricks for some of these women was to cut themselves when arrested as they knew the police officers would be reluctant to come into contact with their blood.

A "rush hour" situation used to develop in the area round the local maternity hospital at the end of visiting time. How many of us ever considered that our loved ones left the maternity hospital and went to pick up a prostitute?

One punter and prostitute couple were arrested mid act in a public car park. The punter was violently ill when he was informed that the prostitute he had been engaged in a sex act with was in fact a male, pre surgery, but living as a women. He would know he had indulged in a sex act with a prostitute but unless he had been arrested by the police he would have had no idea the "she" was male.

I think it is an area that is far more complicated than most of us realise.

MaryTheCanary · 16/04/2017 11:43

In Thailand, the rule is that anyone (regardless of orientation or identification) engaging in anal sex with a man is barred from donation. It occurs to me that this might be the most straightforward and least backlash-provoking means of promoting the safety of the blood supply.

By the way, the rules do not "ban gay/homosexual men"they ban men who have anal sex with other men. Not the same thing. Lots of gay men (around a third) never have anal sex- it is not a defining act. And a fair few straight men wind up having anal sex with another man in particular circumstances (rape, prison sex).

Elendon · 16/04/2017 11:46

But it all relies on the trustworthiness of the person giving blood. People lie all the time, especially when sexual activity is involved.

MaryTheCanary · 16/04/2017 11:47

"Isn't the blood tested? In which case, why do there need to be these orientation-based rules in the first place?"

Most commercial tests do not test for the virus--they test for antibodies to the virus. In the very early stages of infection you won't be producing antibodies, so you won't show up on a test.

There are tests which test for the virus itself--they are very very expensive and would massively inflate costs.

grannytomine · 16/04/2017 11:48

Elendon, and the trustworthiness of the partner of the person giving blood.

Elendon · 16/04/2017 11:48

It's not just anal sex though it's oral sex as well. A lot of diseases are spread through saliva.

MaryTheCanary · 16/04/2017 11:49

"But it all relies on the trustworthiness of the person giving blood. People lie all the time, especially when sexual activity is involved."

Sure, but I think it's worth bearing in mind that the safety of the blood supply improved MASSIVELY after the rules were brought in. Hemophiliacs faced a flipping holocaust back in the 1980s. I don't know how many HIV/AIDS cases have been caused due to the blood supply since 1990 or so, but it can't be many. This would suggest that although these rules may not secure the safety of the blood supply completely, they almost certainly improve it A LOT.

Elendon · 16/04/2017 11:50

Yes grannytomine that too.

Elendon · 16/04/2017 11:55

Mary, I was given a life saving blood transfusion in 1990, and am excluded from giving blood as a result.

However, despite all the campaigns to make blood safe, and I didn't receive tainted blood, (thank goodness), on my second transfusion in 2009, I still had fears.

I'm still thankful for having received the blood of others who helped me back to health. It's a conundrum for sure.

Original poster
BeyondUser24601 · 16/04/2017 12:08

Mary, Terrence Higgins states three cases since the regs were brought in and none since 2002

OP posts:
MaryTheCanary · 16/04/2017 12:16

That doesn't surprise me.

I hate that we have to have rules re MSM because yes, I get that this ends up feeling discriminatory against gay men, and I don't like that at all. But I think the safety of the blood supply has to be paramount. There needs to be more outrage about the fact that the HIV prevalence rate is so high among MSMs in the first place. This is an infection which we know exactly how it is spread, how to prevent it being spread, and it is very hard to catch. We need to start doing better as a society.

WankingMonkey · 16/04/2017 14:53

I think if your 13 month old son was getting a blood transfusion roughly every six weeks you would be less concerned with people's technical 'right' to donate blood.

Well yes of course.

I have never really understood why its not possible to screen the blood after donation? We have a shortage of donors, possibly because of the complicated rules around it. Instead of saying 'you can't donate as your lifestyle is not ideal', wouldn't it be better to let them donate, then test? As I assume its a very very small percentage of (eg) men who shag men who actually have issues with blood?