Trusting my dad with my baby

[ScaftyWit]

Ok, this is my first post but I've joined with loads of things in mind to ask, I feel like there's uncertainty in so much of my life right now.

I am writing this from upstairs in my parents' house. They don't live far from me and we've made a plan that I'll visit weekly with my son (now 15 months).

My son LOVES my mum. As do I. The problem is my dad.

He's not a very nice person. I have never liked him, he treated my mum like dirt when I was little and we've always had a strained, formal relationship.

I don't think I have any reason to suspect that he's done anything really bad to me when I was small but he has also always made me feel quite uncomfortable in an explicable, shuddery sort of way.

I have an older sister who is a narcissist (whole other story) and she once told me that he has been accused of being innapropriate by another family member but she didn't have details and I never know whether to believe things she says. For all I know if I bring it up again she'll deny having said it, that's what usually happens with the weird things she tells me.

So.

I feel very uncomfortable about the thought of leaving my son alone with him, although there's really no concrete reason for this.

I have told my mum that I am not comfortable but I don't really dare explain why as she's very defensive and already exploded at me for even saying that.

Every time I go there and ask her to watch the baby while I go and do something, within minutes I hear her off in the loo and realise she's left the baby with my dad. I ask her to just call if she wants the loo and I'll come back, I'm never indisposed.

I think she fears offending him if it becomes obvious that I don't want to leave them alone, but I always make convincing excuses.

Just now I went down and said to him "oh you need your nose wiped" and then when she came back I said under my breath "you should have called me" and aloud "he needed his nose wiped".

She got very angry and said shrilly "I had to go to the loo!!!!" and I said "I'd have come back down if you'd called" to which she gave me a very disappointed look and said that I was unfair.

My dad had gone off by this point so I said quietly "it makes me unconfortable, every time I ask you to call me and every time you just leave him."

She said "I am not going to call you I think it's unkind", so I said "then we won't come anymore" and she said "yes, I think maybe you should stop coming".

I am not exaggerating when I say this happens every time.

I know nothing untoward has ever happened and I really think it probably never would. I don't really think he is an abuser and even if he was, to my knowledge he's only been creepy to girls.

I don't feel that it's a safeguarding issue so much as a comfort/trust thing with my mum.

Apart from when it comes to discussing things that make her defensive, we are very close.

I have other problems at the moment and I really appreciate her support and don't want to stop visits or create bad blood.

AIBU?

I actually think you're trying to convince yourself that nothing would happen, that nothing happened to you to cause this feeling. That's totally understandable, but in the long run, not good for you. I don't think you're ready to accept this yet though.

Btw, if there is a niggle, you might want to look at making an enquiry under Sarah's law. Hopefully will come back clear, but may help with peace of mind

"I don't really think he is an abuser and even if he was, to my knowledge he's only been creepy to girls."

There is so much wrong with this statement, I don't really know where to start.

I think there are two things in play here: what is convenient for you, wrt your child's relationship with his grandma, and what you know to be a safeguarding issue with your father. (I am sorry, but knowing someone has been creepy around "girls" IS enough knowledge to mean that you need to take extra precautions).

The long and short of it is that if your mother cannot be trusted to act in loco parentis to your rules when you are out of the room, then you can't leave your child alone with her, and things have to change. This is not a matter of her individual relationship with your DS - it's a matter of the fact that she lives with a man whom you suspect to be a paedophile.

I realise this is inconvenient and upsetting for you, and may lead to awkward conversations with your DM. But it is nonetheless your duty as a parent now.

If it's not a child safety issue then it's even more confusing.

Why shouldn't your Mum leave him for 5 mins with his grandfather if there's NOT a child safety issue?

Do you believe your Dad is a pervert or not?

You cannot expect your Mum to understand, if it's as clear as mud.

No one online is able to tell you if your feelings are founded or not, but you have those instincts for a reason. So I would listen to them.

Your mum has stated her position quite clearly that not only is she not going to do as you ask about calling you, but she is actively going to leave the baby alone with your dad to make the point as she seems to be nipping to the loo regularly when you leave them alone. This may be a bigger issue for her than it looks, as she raised children with him. If she acknowledges your concerns you have no way of knowing what buttons of guilt that may push for her, or what she has seen or heard particularly if in the family there have been accusations against him.

If this is going to be a major issue in your relationship with your mum and addressing it with her is going to wreck the parts of the relationship you can enjoy with her, you can either go the route of wherever you go your ds comes too - to the loft, to the loo, and just establish that now without commenting on it. Just don't put her in any situations where she is able to leave ds alone with your dad.

Would you still want to visit and see your dad if your mum was not there, or is it your relationship with your mum that you'd like to protect?

I can't imagine a scenario where my own dad creeped me out (but without history of abuse) but for some reason your gut/mother's instinct is shouting at you and imo is there to protect you. Don't ignore it op you just never know what demons might come crawling out of the closet in years to come .

I'd be restricting contact to my own home or in public places when your father isn't around. Sorry you've got to content with this is sounds really tricky

Is your dad your real father it's very odd feeling to have to someone who hasn't really done anything for you have cause for concern

Long shot (and possibly a bit "out there") but have you thought about having regression therapy to figure out if this "creepy" feeling has grounds? You say you don't think anything happened...

Scafty

I have PM'd you

I'm sorry but not letting mum leave him in dad's company for a few minutes in their house just isn't sustainable. And if you think he won't notice what you're doing, you're deluded.
If he makes you uncomfortable you need to think more about this, and do some digging, if you feel up to it. And keep your son away from him during this time.
This kind of halfway house where you're letting him be with him but never alone is just a total mix up and in just a few months he's going to be old enough that you won't necessarily have this level of control over him anymore. When he's even a little older, if he enjoys your Dad's company he'll be toddling away from your DM to find your Dad. What on earth are you going to do then?!!
I would echo the poster who said about Sarah's Law. I think you need to find some answers and if you're not willing to do this then ask your mum to come visit you at your house and if Dad comes too, just don't ever leave your son alone. It's not fair on your mum to have to police it.

It's also possible your revulsion is a completely understandable reaction to him being shitty to your Mum growing up.

You learnt to hate him. So being around him is loathsome to you.

Ok just one last message to clarify.

When I say "creepy to girls" I mean that he creeps me out, he creeps my sister out, and she made a comment about what another female relative may have insinuated in the past.

I honestly don't believe that he is a paedophile. I really truly don't. But I feel that he is certainly a creep.

I don't think he would DO anything to my son. If I did there would be no question in my mind. I am aggressively protective of my baby. This is why I am behaving this way over what essentially is perhaps a non issue.

I don't like the man. He wouldn't do anything but I don't want him around my son unless I'm there because I don't like him and don't really KNOW him.

I wouldn't want Mr Blobby watching my son either, he creeps me out too, but it doesn't mean he's a paedophile.

I think I understand.

My father was 'creepy'. I think he got something out of being with children. It made him feel big and powerful. It also made him feel safe. As if adult women and adult relationships were threatening.

I had always sort of know this, but when I had a baby it was an uncomfortable feeling as if he wanted to possess her. (Sometimes women post about this in talking about their mothers in law. It's as if the older relative/family member wants to undemine them/cut them out and totally take over.)

It was like that with my father. I did not think he would hurt or harm her. But it might be that he would take her too far away and not give her back when she was crying and wanted me. (This actually happened.) There was something too intense in his need for her - particularly as he positively didn't want to relate to me or have me around.

It is really hard to say to someone's spouse, that you think there is something perverse in their partner's relationships with children.

So I never really had that conversation. However, I did warn my mother when I saw my father not just helping my daughter jump off in a slide in a park, but also helping a little girl he didn't know - lifting her off the equipment and putting her down. (I had managed to move him away before the child's father intervened.) I told my mother he would be putting himself at risk if he touched other people's children because such behaviour was no longer acceptable, and she might want to think about the best way of explaining this to him.)

He's a creep? So don't allow him around your child?

Then you wouldn't bring your child to Mr Blobbys house, would you?

@dreaming I was wondering about regression therapy too. I just struggle with the feelings you have being totally without cause whether you know the real cause or not

Then you wouldn't bring your child to Mr Blobbys house, would you?
This! OP I think we're all sympathetic to your gut feelings about your Dad and would support you not wanting DS to be left alone with him but I think it's just asking a bit much of your mum to police it in this way in their house. I think you need to rearrange things. Also as I said, this is going to only become a bigger issue as DS gets older.

From a personal point of view in the future if your DS wants to have a relationship with his granddad/ starts to ask questions, I think you need to sort out how sure you are about whether he is only creepy to adult women or what. I have an uncle by marriage (actually thankfully divorced from my aunt now) who I know has been quite creepy to adult women and he is a fairly unpleasant man. However from his grandchildren's points of view he is a fabulous granddad, I know my cousins don't hesitate to leave their quite young kids with him despite knowing what he's done (although they don't have a history of always feeling uncomfortable with him for many years he was your standard family man, happy loving family). There's never been a whiff of anything improper regarding children or young people and he has always worked in a position where there would have been tons and tons of opportunity for accusations. So for them they have managed to separate out his unpleasantness. I don't know if that will be possible for you.

Regression therapy is wholly unreliable, sorry. It's been the cause of much controversy.

I wouldn't let a male I didn't trust one hundred percent have any time alone with a child of mine. The statistics on men abusing children are just too high imo.

Thank you again everyone. I know I'm kind of contradicting myself but I'm just trying not to give people the wrong idea.

It's so hard. I suppose there is the possibility that there's a real cause for my feelings.. but also as Elspeth said it might just be because I hated him growing up. And can't some people just be a bit yuck?

Also I totally see that it's really unfair to expect my mum to police things, and what rumblingDM said about the guilt buttons is exactly what I have been dancing around with her. It's a horrible thing to say to her and if unfounded then it is really unfair of me.

I just wish she could just understand that if I ask her to stay with him for a few minutes, she breaks my trust when she goes. Even if she thinks it's wrong of me.

It's not a 'safeguarding issue'. Safeguarding is professional terminology. This is you having a creepy family member and being unsure whether to trust him with your son - it is entirely up to you. I wouldn't.

It's totally right though that as my son gets older, I can't keep doing this. I guess I hadn't ever worried about that because my dad is very old and very ill... so he isn't expected to be with us much longer.

Does that change things? I don't know if I was subconsciously waiting it out thinking it wouldn't be an issue anymore. That sounds so awful and callous but maybe that was partly it.

I am going to do what's been suggested and limit visits as much as possible. When we are here he won't leave my side.

Thank you to all.

Your Mum has chosen to side with your Dad, to the point where she thinks you need to stop visiting. I think you need to accept that and stay away.
Because when your children are older, their Grandad is likely to give them 'yuk' feelings and you will tell them to override those feelings.

Another thought as I read your last post - I grew up with a DA man in the household and oddly, the big issue I had as an adult was not with him but with my DM. I was furious with her for decades at enabling and covering up for him, looking the other way instead of protecting me, because her relationship was a higher priority than I was.

It makes me wonder if your wanting your DM to keep your trust is at any level a bit like that; that you need her to show you she has your back over his.

I think being old and ill does change things. When children are small you can reasonably stay near them and supervise things.

My father died when my daughter was ten.

I think there is an awkward balance between a child's right to have contact with their grandparents (and grandparents with to see their grandchildren.)

And the fact that some grandparents may not actually be very good people. It comes up with all sorts of issues other than 'creepiness'.

There's no one right place for the line to be drawn. And it's a difficult decision.