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Original poster

Benefit Fraud?

89 replies

DrumrollPlease · 08/04/2017 14:07

I have a disabled family member. She lives in a 3 bed home, which is filthy and a complete mess. She has carers who come in to cater to her basic needs, but they don't do the cleaning.

She also has 2 adult children who live with her (in their 30's). Neither of them pay rent or council tax, and one is a high earner (well over 50k) - this one has just moved back in, but is not officially registered as living there. The other uses her Motability car to go to work.

Now as she has housing benefit, PIP etc. Is this fraud? Should they be allowed to get away just 'sponging' off of her? They literally do nothing for her. I am tired on her behalf of seeing her confined to her room on a beautiful day like today, while the house is in squalor yet again only a few days after I helped to clean it. They never clean or help, and she is miserable, but seems to put up with it because they are her 'children'.

OP posts:

TripTrapTripTrapOverTheBridge · 08/04/2017 16:16

A mobility car can only be used for the benefit of the disabled person. Not 'some of the time' !!!! Household shopping etc fine. Personal use - no!!

If the named driver/s live over 5 miles from the disabled persons home they either can't be the named driver OR can have a tracker fitted on the car!

Voice0fReason · 08/04/2017 16:20

You can only use another persons mobility car as a named driver solely for the benefit of the disabled person. ie going g to the shops for them.
Just utter nonsense!

If you have a invisible disability. Do you really need a blue badge?
Some people with these conditions might qualify:
Severe visual impairment (not always obvious to other people)
Significant health condition
Terminal illness
Severe epilepsy
Severe mental impairment
A condition that varies - MS, Arthritis etc

These are just the criteria for my council. Others may be different.
It's a national scheme with set criteria. LA's do have some discretion on top of that but the automatic qualification is the same throughout England. Scotland and Wales are more generous with extra conditions included.

Nothing you have posted sounds like benefit fraud and even if it was, it would be your disabled friend who would lose out if she was reported.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 08/04/2017 16:28

Just utter nonsense!

Not really. Depends how you view this taken from the motability site ....

The car is used by, or for the benefit of, the disabled person. This does not mean that the disabled person needs to be in the car for every journey. In practice, this means other named drivers in the household can use the car for shopping and other routine activities, as long as the disabled customer will benefit

RubbishMantra · 08/04/2017 16:34

Why won't her 2 adult children living with your friend pay for a cleaner once a week. They're living rent free ffs?

missymayhemsmum · 08/04/2017 16:46

You wnbu to take your relative to CAB to ensure that she is doing everything legally, if she hasn't already checked.
Nor would you be unreasonable to read the riot act to your family members who are living with their mother, but not supporting her practically. It sound as though (putting it charitably) they haven't realised that the 'mum looks after child' dynamic should have been reversed years back, and that the rest of the extended family think they should pull their weight.

KitKats28 · 08/04/2017 16:50

Voice0fReason why are you saying it's nonsense? I copy/pasted it from the Motability website. Even you can't argue with that. The things that I pointed out were criteria for my council were for blue badge, not Motability. They are two separate things.

A Motability car can only be used for the benefit of the person who is receiving DLA or PIP. You can argue until you are blue in the face, but this is a fact.

tabulahrasa · 08/04/2017 16:56

KitKats28

The higher mobility awards part of DLA or PIP are standard as qualifying someone for a blue badge.

"I'm unsure though how if a person can't walk, and receives higher rate mobility, that it's a hidden disability. Surely it's quite visible if someone can't walk."

No, not always.

Someone can be physically capable of walking, but need a carer to make sure they are doing so safely... the blue badge doesn't need to be for the driver.

StillDrivingMeBonkers · 08/04/2017 16:58

Why has she got a motobility car if she's effectively bed bound? Can she drive if she is reliant on others to take her out?

Spikeyball · 08/04/2017 17:02

You don't need to be able to drive to have a mobility car.

TripTrapTripTrapOverTheBridge · 08/04/2017 17:02

Still you can have people drive it for you, just not for their own personal use

BigGrannyPants · 08/04/2017 17:03

Mobility car is a no no, it can only be used to transport her so if she isn't there no one can use it.if they are found out she'll get the car and perhaps her mobility taken away. The housing benefit as well, if she is registered as living there on her own but has employed people living there, it is benefit fraud.

Spikeyball · 08/04/2017 17:08

The motorbility car should be used for things that are of benefit to her. She doesn't have to be in it. Your getting the rules mixed up with those for blue badges.

Voice0fReason · 08/04/2017 17:12

You don't need to be able to drive to have a mobility car.

The car has to be used for the disabled person's benefit. That benefit can be very general. It's the same as DLA that is awarded to a child should be used for the general benefit of the disabled child. However, on a practical level, there is a huge amount of discretion in HOW it is used.
My friend has a motorbility car for her disabled DD. She drives her to school every day then uses the car for everything that she is doing during the day - going to work, shopping, socialising etc. She isn't breaking the rules. She isn't expected to drive the car home after dropping her DD at school and switch into a different car that she should own! Families are not expected to own 2 cars.

I'm unsure though how if a person can't walk, and receives higher rate mobility, that it's a hidden disability. Surely it's quite visible if someone can't walk
Look at the list I made in my earlier post of disabilities that are not obvious to other people but would qualify for a blue badge.

witsender · 08/04/2017 17:14

Mobility car is a no no, it can only be used to transport her so if she isn't there no one can use it.if they are found out she'll get the car and perhaps her mobility taken away.

Wrong.

TripTrapTripTrapOverTheBridge · 08/04/2017 17:20

Socialising Voice ?!!

I've just got a motobility car for my son, carers etc will drive it. They are very clear when they talk to you regarding the application (phone call from Motability) that the car is to be used only for the benefit of the disabled person. It can be used without them present if for things like going to pick up their prescription or doing the shopping, same goes if I was driving it (can't drive!) but socialising? Not at all. For my son to socialise? Yes. For the driver to? No! The car is my sons and to be used for him only. It is NOT a family car

custardtrifle · 08/04/2017 17:27

I'm a disabled adult getting PIP and my adult daughter lives with me. I get housing benefit and council tax reduction which pay rent and council tax in full, and there is no requirement for DD to pay anything towards that. If I wasn't disabled, she'd have to pay something towards it (depending on her wage, called a non-dependent deduction) but as I receive PIP, she's exempt from this. So it looks like OP's relative doesn't have to worry about her housing/council tax being affected. She might have any severe disability premiums affected if she is living with another adult - this didn't apply to me as my other DD claims carer's allowance for me, which means that I can't get the SDP anyway.

DD uses my mobility car which she uses for work and for the household shopping and other errands, as well as her social activities and appointments for me. It wouldn't be practical for us to have two cars (only one parking space). I consider that it benefits us as a household for her to use it, as it wouldn't really help us if she was unemployed or could never go out. We've been told this is fine by the Motability people and my social worker, there is no requirement for me to be in the car at all times when it is being used.

KitKats28 · 08/04/2017 17:29

Voice0fReason I wasn't talking about other hidden disabilities. I was talking specifically about being unable to walk.

Your friend does not have a motorbility car, she has a Motability car. If you are going to argue with people who know what they are talking about, then at least use the right terminology

Bloody hell Spikeyball we agree on something 😉.

BigGrannyPants · 08/04/2017 17:33

Witsender it's not there for her DC to go back and fourth to work, that is abuse of the system.

KitKats28 · 08/04/2017 17:34

custardtrifle that isn't necessarily a national thing though. I'm disabled, maximum PIP, and in order to carry on claiming council tax benefit I was told I would have to provide my son's payslips. I wasn't prepared to do this, as he earns minimum wage and I don't see why his wages should be taken into account. They stopped the benefit, and demanded 3 months back payments.

SafeBet · 08/04/2017 17:35

Hidden disabilities https://www.disabled-world.com/disability/types/invisible/

I have MS and a blue badge for my poor balance and dizziness, and terrible neuro-fatigue. On a good day you wouldn't know that I am studying the floor to try and keep my balance. You don't know that I can't talk or look around while I walk or I topple over. You don't know that a windy day makes me wobbly and even more tired. You can't tell that I have to park close or I won't make it home as well. You don't know that my son cried in his last school trip because his Mum couldn't make it due to her mobility problems. You don't know that I never get to see him play his football as it's too much standing and too far to walk from the car to the pitch and would wipe me out for the rest of the day, and if I do that for him, then to be fair to my other child I'd have to do the same, and I can't do both. Not without putting myself in bed for the rest of the day, making myself incapable to all and sundry. I have a choice: £10 to spend on £100 worth of energy value, so I have to choose carefully. Parking close to a shop saves me 50p or £1, or on a bad day as much as a fiver. If I try to go overdrawn the catch-up recovery is like paying high interest: it takes a long time.

But you'd never guess by looking at me. Not unless you knew how I was before getting MS.

Funnyonion17 · 08/04/2017 17:37

There's no benefit fraud going on, she is allowed to have people live with her, and they're not required to pay rent or council tax as its already covered.

Your wrong. Housing benefit is calculated using the income of all living at the property. It's fraud

KingJoffreysRestingCuntface · 08/04/2017 17:37

god i really hate seeing families prepared tograss each other up. Its like something from 1984

You've misspelt Jeremy Kyle and replaced it with some numbers...

Babyroobs · 08/04/2017 17:42

Funny Onion- Not if the person is claiming PIP apparently.

custardtrifle · 08/04/2017 17:46

KitKats28 if you are getting PIP then you should have received an exemption from non dependent deductions regardless of which council you're under. The exemptions based on the non dependent varies according to the local council rules, but exemptions due to the claimant being on PIP is national. Definitely seek advice on that as you are paying more in council tax than you need to.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/help-if-on-a-low-income/help-with-your-council-tax-council-tax-reduction/how-your-council-tax-reduction-is-worked-out/council-tax-reduction-non-dependant-deductions-for-pensioners/

KitKats28 · 08/04/2017 18:18

I'm not a pensioner though. I'm only in my 40s 🤣🤣

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