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Original poster

"Pat downs"

68 replies

user1486241726 · 05/04/2017 14:10

DD (19) is back from uni for Easter and we have been catching up on her nights out and social life etc. She mentioned that one of the clubs they go to often has male bouncers that give you a pat down body search on entry. I asked DD if there were female bouncers there and she said no - just male. Asked her what happens if you ask for a woman and she said she didn't know - her lot always just get on with the search to get into the club.

I said I personally don't think I'd feel comfortable being patted down by a man and DD couldn't understand why, said she'd never really been bothered by it or even thought about it - apparently her female friends have never mentioned it either.

Am i completely out of touch?? I don't think I'd want to be patted down by a man but DD didn't seem fazed at all.

OP posts:
Crispbutty · 05/04/2017 16:53

He's doing his bloody job. Gun and crime in nightclubs is getting worse. Men get their girlfriends to take them in.

But the main thing bouncers would be checking for on women is them sneaking a bottle of alcohol in with them.

To be honest I would rather have a quick pat down from a bloke than the very close lingering pat down I had from an extremely butch female bouncer when I last went out to a place with door security.

MaidOfStars · 05/04/2017 16:53

Don't be obtuse. We live in a society where rules and regulations exist to protect service users and the service providers by any reasonable adjustment. Hence female security guards patting down at airports and female police officers patting down suspects.

It's not so much a sex angle as an invasion of bodily privacy that could be made as comfortable and a safe as possible for all those involved.

Kalizahara · 05/04/2017 16:55

Op no I don't think it's appropriate to have a male frisking women. Although it could be argued that she has a choice whether or not to enter the club.

Userschmoozer why are you throwing rape myths around? Convictions for rape are notoriously low. Around 5%, are you suggesting that up to 95% of women lie about being raped?

As for doormen not needing to get their jollies from frisking women because they have women throwing themselves at them. Are you actually fucking for real?

Are you seriously saying that only the sexually deprived abuse their power and rape or grope women? You do realise that rape and sexual assault are less about sex and more about power and control? Right? Good looking men, married men, celebrities and even doormen are all capable of rape and sexual assault.

Lesbians can't rape women because they don't have penises.

If a doorman wanted to, frisking women would give him the perfect opportunity to abuse his power.

UserSchmooser · 05/04/2017 16:57

"reasonable adjustment"

and, when I was on the door I was one of 15 (ish) and the others were male. I doubt it's any different now so a reasonable adjustment is not hunting down a less experienced and less well trained woman so someone's mother can feel comfortable about security measures.

MaidOfStars · 05/04/2017 16:58

(Although obviously, security/police operate on a slightly different platform where the "service user" is legally required to submit to the patting down, and thus a request to not have this done by a male creates an impasse that can only be resolved by recruiting a female for the job. In the case of the OP, the service provider can simply refuse to, well, provide)

Original poster
user1486241726 · 05/04/2017 17:01

Oh no just wanted to clarify it's nothing about not wanting a man to pat down my daughter lol - she's 19!!!!! if she's ok with it it's none of my business. It was more about how I'd feel about it - hence use of the word personally

OP posts:
UserSchmooser · 05/04/2017 17:02

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MaidOfStars · 05/04/2017 17:03

a reasonable adjustment is not hunting down a less experienced and less well trained woman
I've only ever been patted down by the single female bouncer on the door of a club. I've only ever been robustly frisked by females at airports (not complaining, it's professional and, IMO, necessary).

At clubs/other entry points, males have asked me to open my jacket and bag, turned me around to check for the vodka bottle outline, maybe a hand on my tummy (but rare). But never frisked my breasts, bum, or high inner thigh.

UserSchmooser · 05/04/2017 17:05

@MaidOfStars

Are you pointing out how you could have snuck something into the club? Suggesting the men did their job poorly because of overzealous women complaining that some right they've imagined has been infringed. 20 years ago, I'd have sacked a doorman who didn't check underwire / underboob and thigh. Bum is less of an issue and it isn't good for iding anything.

Kalizahara · 05/04/2017 17:06

Why have you completely avoided all of my questions?

Renaissance2017 · 05/04/2017 17:11

As a male who has done many, many thousands of rundowns and full strip searches, I have never known genitals or breasts (on a female) ever being touched on a rubdown. A full search is different, although nothing is touched, the person being searched moved their genitals.

Females are allowed to rubdown males but males are not allowed to rubdown females. I'm not sure why it was deemed that men weren't allowed to object to females rubbing them down.

Obviously full searches are done by the same gender, although (trans thread alert!) if a transgender person had say breasts and male genitalia a male would search the bottom half and a female the top half.

UserSchmooser · 05/04/2017 17:12

Why have you completely avoided all of my questions?

Sorry.

why are you throwing rape myths around?

I am not.

"Around 5%, are you suggesting that up to 95% of women lie about being raped?"

I have no idea, I can only go on what the court shows - guilty, or not, by a jury of our peers. As I've tried to show, stats can and are twisted, especially when the need to show prevalence to secure funding is at stake.

Are you actually fucking for real?

Yes

Are you seriously saying that only the sexually deprived abuse their power and rape or grope women?

No.

You do realise that rape and sexual assault are less about sex and more about power and control?

Yes

Right?

Umm...

Although it could be argued that she has a choice whether or not to enter the club.

This wasn't a question but I wanted to say we;; done for understanding the situation.

I'd also love you to show what part of anything I've said is provably incorrect.

Kalizahara · 05/04/2017 17:18

Userschmooser you said that doormen don't need to get their jollies from frisking women, because they have plenty of women throwing themselves at them.

That is a typical rape myth and one of the many reasons why the conviction rate is so low. The idea that he didn't need to rape her, she was too ugly anyway and all the rest.

The point is that allowing doormen to frisk drink young women gives them ample opportunity to abuse their power.

MaudGonneMad · 05/04/2017 17:22

lesbian couples are more than likely one argument away from beating the shit out of each other. That isn't even me being facetious, honestly, they pound the crap out of their partners nearly twice as frequently as M-F DV.

WTF?

UserSchmooser · 05/04/2017 17:23

Doormen aren't allowed to, the women can allow them or not.

Frisking is not the same as rape.

They have no power as any woman can say no. If they say no and are 'frisked' then what you are talking about is not a doorman being a doorman, it's sexual assault. Which are you talking about?

Are you suggesting that every club needs to have a woman available to searches? This is different to airports as travelling is not seen as a luxury in the eyes of the law in the same way clubbing is.

If you do think that this is a fair and reasonable solution then it would lead to a lot of shit female bouncers hired because of their genitalia as opposed to being the best person for the job: something you're no doubt against.

Kalizahara · 05/04/2017 17:26

Anyway op, no I wouldn't be comfortable with a male frisking me. I'd prefer a female didn't either.

When I was 19 I doubt it would have bothered me. Unfortunately life experience has opened my eyes.

It's not a bad way to see the world, it's a realistic way.

Sadly due to people like userschmooser if you were unfortunate enough to meet a guy who overstepped the mark, it would be unlikely you'd be believed. Particularly if you were a 19 year old woman vs a 'professional' man.

Kalizahara · 05/04/2017 17:37

I'm very aware that frisking is not the same as rape. However you started throwing rape myths out there.

Same thing goes, even good looking doormen with a queue of women are very capable of sexual assault.

As for whether there should be a female available. I've no idea, personally I'd choose not to go in. I imagine most young people would just be so desperate to get inside they wouldn't care. Young people end up in all sorts of situations that I wouldn't choose to many of which are risky imo.

Klaphat · 05/04/2017 17:40

I think you're a very peculiar person if you think that men are simply people waiting to be convicted but ho hum - teach your daughters what you wish.

If you want to convince anyone at all with your agenda here, you would do well not to make yourself look quite this ridiculous.

Kalizahara · 05/04/2017 17:41

They do have power, because if a group of 6 18 year old teenagers are going into a club, they're all a bit drunk. One doesn't feel comfortable with the 'pat down', her choice might be either to be left outside alone or to accept the pat down.

If the doorman decided to grope her she'd be fairly powerless. According to some she should even be grateful.

MaidOfStars · 05/04/2017 20:44

Are you pointing out how you could have snuck something into the club?
Confused No. Not at all.

MaidOfStars · 05/04/2017 20:50

20 years ago, I'd have sacked a doorman who didn't check underwire / underboob and thigh
Good for you. So you're there at the search. And if the female requested that you (assuming you're female) performed this part of the search instead of the male, what would be your response?

MaidOfStars · 05/04/2017 20:54

Renaissance Were your rubdowns part of a legal process (e.g. police) or an optional process that could be refused (e.g. bouncer)?

Missswatch · 05/04/2017 20:54

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Renaissance2017 · 05/04/2017 21:03

Yes they were. In fact if I decided someone needed a search and they refused it would be done under restraint - I would of course have to justify my reasons!

I wouldn't be comfortable as a male searching a female.

UserSchmooser · 06/04/2017 01:14

"what would be your response?"

If I'd been on the door at that time (but I was referring to being a a manager and sacking), I'd have told them to come to me. That's easy to accommodate but many clubs don't / didn't have women there.