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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To ask my tenant to get her son out of bed for a viewing?

83 replies

CeCeBloomer · 04/04/2017 19:32

Background is - I let my old home out to a couple (both on tenancy) however they have now broken up and the guy has moved out and left his ex and her two children (not his) in the house. It now transpires that she had no idea how much the rent is, when it's due and certainly can't afford it. In the meantime - I had been considering selling the house for some time, had talked to the guy about it and he was fine with it.
Notice has been served and they are due out mid May.
I have spoken to the lady who is still in the house with her kids, explained the situation and she said she was happy for people to view the house. However, 3 viewings were booked last night and she wasn't there even though she had confirmed she would be and was happy to so all these couples had to go home without viewing.
This morning the estate agents call to say there is a viewing booked in for 11 but that the tennant had advised her son was still asleep so they couldn't see one of the bedrooms.
I rang her and asked her if she could wake him up so that they could view all the bedrooms. She agreed but seemed pretty reluctant.
I am really fed up - I am likely not to get any rent for the next 2 months and the house mortgage repayments already exceed the rent. I am on mat leave and not earning so could really do without it.

OP posts:

Toysaurus · 04/04/2017 22:40

Get some proper legal advice because some of it on here is wrong. It can take the best part of a year to shift tenants with a Section 21 if it's not done correctly. I would be checking you have crossed every T and dotted every I and have protected their deposit correctly.

I wouldn't sell this property until after they have left. It's too complicated if they don't go. Just because you are expecting them out in mid May does not mean they actually have to leave.

Dowser · 05/04/2017 00:21

Marking my place and watching with interest as I too am an accidental landlord.

Not wanting to sell at the present moment but certainly in the next year or two.

Tenants love living there, I've been a good landlord too. Never put up the rent, fixed things etc...but I don't want to do this for ever.

Not all of us landlords are bad guys and the law should protect us as much as tenants

One of my houses has unexpectedly become vacant and I'm selling as I don't want any more hassle with renting.

Do let me know how you get on.
Thankfully I have no mortgage

specialsubject · 06/04/2017 08:31

It is not 'straight to high court' - you need permission from the county court and it may be refused.

'Get the bailiffs in' - no, that comes after the correct notice has expired, the wait for the court, the possession order (if granted) has also expired. Only then can you apply for bailiffs. Total wait nearly a year if London, four to six months elsewhere. Tenant does nothing wrong by staying, and non payment of rent, crime and or wrecking the place do not affect these timescales.

UK, not Florida.

pigeondujour · 06/04/2017 08:40

She should 100% be being flexible to help you given she's not paying rent. To be fair, at least she agreed to wake him but you'd be gracious about it. Viewings don't take long, he could be back to bed very shortly after. Poor you OP, no one needs that.

Bearfrills · 06/04/2017 08:59

He only got in from work at 1am. I used to work in a bar and would get home at a similar time, it was my equivalent of a 5pm home time had I been doing a standard day job. So I would get home, make something for my dinner (yes, dinner at 2am), then have a shower because I'd be stinking of booze, fags and other people's sweat, put my uniform in the wash (same reason as the shower), read from a half hour or so to help me wind down and clear my head, then bed would be around 4am possibly 5am if I was having a late 'night'. I'd wake up around midday and start over again, breakfast at lunch time, lunch just before leaving for work. You still do the same routine in the same order but at different times to people who work 9-5.

Basically, you asked the tenant to wake her son up in his version of the early hours of the morning. It would be like someone asking you to get out of bed at 4am in order for someone else to have a nosy around your bedroom. I'm sorry you're in this situation OP, it's crappy that you're getting no rent and having to go through all this hassle, but I'd have told you no on waking him up too.

StarUtopia · 06/04/2017 09:08

I think you should wait until you have a vacant property. Highly unlikely you will get the £ you want for it when viewed with a tenant in anyway. Far better to have an empty property, spend a week cleaning/fixing things, and then get it sold promptly in 6 weeks for the price you want.

HelenaDove · 06/04/2017 23:40

And what if he couldnt get back to sleep again pigeon?

19lottie82 · 07/04/2017 00:01

YABU it's their home and they have no legal obligations to permit viewings (and no it doesn't matter what's written in the lease).

You are being ridiculous by marketing the property when they are still living there, This will put soooooo many buyers off its unreal. Any solicitor will advise their clients to walk away and not proceed until the property is empty anyway.

How do you know they will leave in May? It could take you months to get rid of them.

Seriously, get them out then tidy the place up and market it. You are really just wanting you cake and eating it right now.

I'm a LL too btw.

19lottie82 · 07/04/2017 00:06

watery they'll be out in two months max? Not necessarily. What if the judge doesn't grant the eviction? If there is ANYTHING wrong with the S21 then it will have to be reissued and the whole process will have to start again.
Also there can be waiting lists for bailiffs, up to six weeks in some cases.
Saying they will definitely be out in 2 months is very naive.

abbsisspartacus · 07/04/2017 00:07

I veiwed a house once there was a bloke in bed she didn't tell us till she flung open the door

ItsAMessyLife · 07/04/2017 00:10

Seriously, get them out then tidy the place up and market it. You are really just wanting you cake and eating it right now.

How exactly is she wanting her cake and eating it?

19lottie82 · 07/04/2017 00:12

Because she wants to market a property for sale while also getting rent from tenants.

As I explained in my post above, it may seem like a good idea at the time, but it's really not.

ItsAMessyLife · 07/04/2017 00:39

Because she wants to market a property for sale while also getting rent from tenants.

The tenant isn't paying any rent.

innagazing · 07/04/2017 01:18

The partner that has left is still jointly and severally responsible for the rent under ordinary assured tenancy agreements so it may be worth trying to locate him and talking to him about continuing to pay towards the rent- after all, you could take him to court and he may be very keen to avoid a cc judgement against him. He may then be able to put pressure on the woman to actually leave as soon as practical or in May.

Does the woman work? Why can't she afford to pay the rent? Could she get housing benefit? The son is working- why can't he pay the rent, or at least a good portion of it. How old is the son?

Did you take a deposit from them? If they don't pay the rent, you can apply for it to be paid to you after they leave.

Have you tried to talk with the woman about what she and her son could reasonably pay? Find out i she's really expecting to live rent free for the foreseeable future? Is she eligible for benefits now her partner isn't there?

I think you have to empathize with the predicament she is in as it can't be easy for her. I also sympathise with you.

I do think, you're probably better off waiting til she has moved out before marketing the property- I think people will be very wary of getting involved when there is a tenant in the property and no certainty that they will be leaving voluntarily. No one in their right mind would want to proceed with ta sale with a tenant in situ who is not paying the rent- unless possibly you were willing to sell way below it's true value, .

You could possibly talk to your mortgage company about a payment holiday for a few months if the rent isn't being paid currently (providing they are aware that it's rented out?) which would tide you over until you get possession of the property.

kali110 · 07/04/2017 03:21

Because she wants to market a property for sale while also getting rent from tenants.

The tenant is paying any rent and won't be till they're evicted
I don't blame the op.
I hope it doesn't take months op!

PenelopeFlintstone · 07/04/2017 03:44

And what if he couldn't get back to sleep again pigeon?
Who cares??? They're not paying any rent!!!
They could pay a bit if they were decent people, even if they couldn't manage the lot. I can't believe the lack of sympathy from some posters. "It's their home", again and again. We know their rights. What about their responsibilities - if not legal, what about moral??

Mummyoflittledragon · 07/04/2017 04:04

You sound very much like an accidental landlady. This is a business venture and unfortunately the business relationship with your tenants is breaking down.

No solicitor will allow a sale to go through with sitting tenants. You are naive if you think she will definitely go in May as she could decide the rent free accommodation is perfect or she could get the council involved. In which case she will be advised to stay until evicted. Hopefully they will leave but there is no guarantee.

Mummyoflittledragon · 07/04/2017 04:07

Penelope.

It's better that they pay no rent as the eviction process will be smoother. Op can get them out through the court on non payment and I would personally start the court process now.

esk1mo · 07/04/2017 04:16

"what if he cant get back to sleep?" REALLY?

im a tenant who was recently served notice to move out and it was horrible being serviced notice especially knowing you have no savings for a new deposit on new house. but at the end of the day im not going to make things difficult for everyone else, i agreed to viewings and even though some were at 9:00am and id only had about 2 hours sleep i still went ahead with it. so her son cant get out of bed for 5 minutes? it isnt going to ruin his life to do it once, is it?

i dont really have much sympathy for tenants who just stop paying rent and just expect everyone to be ok with it, why arent you chasing him aswell as her? they are both liable. did they provide a guarantor? some tenants seem to assume landlords are loaded and rent out properties for fun.

Fuxfurforall · 07/04/2017 04:17

She is responsible for the rent. All the time the rent is paid, she is legally entitled to ' quiet enjoyment ' of the property until she leaves.

She is not entitled to continue living there rent free unless you have formally told her as such.

19lottie82 · 07/04/2017 09:04

messy and calli from what I can make out the rent is up to date and no payments have been missed yet? You can't treat your tenants like shit because you anticipate that they're not going to pay the rent!

That aside attempting to sell with a tenant in the property is bad form, and well....... just stupid! Did you read my earlier post?

There are legalities here, it's not just based on what you think is fair because the OP is on May leave and thinks she might not get next months rent.

Please read the post made at 0404 above.

19lottie82 · 07/04/2017 09:05

It's a bad idea people becoming LL's if they can't afford to pay the mortgage when there is no rent coming in. "Accidental" LL or not!

specialsubject · 07/04/2017 09:11

Sadly, yes.

And eviction on section 8 is not 'smoother' - there are games that can be played to delay it for months. Section 21 always works IF paperwork perfect. Get it wrong, go back to the start, pay another £355, wait for another court date.

VivienneWestwoodsKnickers · 07/04/2017 09:11

There is no legal obligation for your tenant to allow viewings. I accommodated this as a (paying) tenant and it was a pain in the arse - turning up at all times, often unannounced because of the crap EA, having to keep the house pristine etc. In hindsight I should have refused, because it was very inconvenient as I was an emergency services worker on a 24hr shift pattern and was using to someone else's drum.

So yes, you might as well wait until this tenant is out.

19lottie82 · 07/04/2017 09:25

All the time the rent is paid, she is legally entitled to ' quiet enjoyment ' of the property until she leaves.

Omg the crap advice given on housing threads makes me want to scream sometimes

Being behind on the rent does NOT remove a tenants right to quiet enjoyment!

Also excuse me for shouting but posters are not seeming to grasp this yet......

THE TENANT IS NOT BEHIND WITH THE RENT. THEY HAVE NOT MISSED ANY PAYMENTS AT THIS POINT IN TIME.

Even if they had it does not mean their legal rights are diminished.

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