Who should pay?

[Finelinebetweenchaos]

Genuinely not sure what's fair here. This is the basic situation.

Neighbour A has a long garden with an evergreen hedge of conifers and yew trees down one side. Garden is on a slope so hedge at the top is about 3-4m tall and at the bottom is about 7-8m high. The conifers have been shaped and look nice. Yew which is taller is a bit sprouty as it hasn't been cut for several years (it's really high and hard to cut).

Neighbour B's garden backs on to the side of A's garden. B has a small garden (approx 9m long) which is further down the slope so the hedge looks even taller (it's higher than the roof of B's house).

B would like A to significantly trim the hedge. A has said yes but only the yew and only by 1-2m and only if B pays for it.

B feels that in some ways it's fair for B to pay as they are the ones who want it cut BUT it is A's hedge and the reason it is so unruly is because it hasn't been maintained.

Neither neighbours want to go to the council because of the stress etc and this would cost money (£400) anyway (if they did, the likelihood is that the entire hedge would have to be significantly reduced but no one wants it to be acrimonious. Currently thinks are friendly.

What do you think!?

The person who owns the property it stands on should pay.
if it's blocking your light you can complain to council.
You can find out if there are any height restrictions to fences and shrubbery too, if they are in breach of this the council can make them cut them back.
It happened to our neighbour, nobody complained that I know of, and we have much more light than we did before.
I think council noticed it when they were inspecting our chimney after we'd had a partial collapse.

I'm a surveyor and deal with this stuff all the time at work.

B may trim back any branches overhanging their property without permission from A. B must offer all of the arisings (cuttings) back to A, because they are still A's property.

If B wants to carry out more extensive work, such a reducing the trees in height, B must seek permission from A. A is entitled to refuse permission or offer A no contribution towards the cost of the works. Again, all arisings must be offered back to A and B is responsible for paying any compensation if any of A's property is damaged during the works.

A is only responsible for the cost of works to the trees is they are posing a danger. A is responsible for ensuring the trees are safe and if they are considered to be dangerous, A must have a tree survey carried out by a qualifies person.

There is no absolute right to light, but if B has enjoyed uninterrupted sunlight for at least 20 years and the trees are now preventing this there may be a case because B may be able to prove they have an easement to enjoy this particular right. However shading in a garden is unlikely be substantial enough to infringe this right; it is usually something like having to use artificial light to read inside because light cannot come in through a window.

Sorry B, I think you are going to have to cough up if you want the work done. We have a lovely view from the front of our house and my neighbors have let a self-seeded sycamore grow from the base of our shared 2 ft garden wall. It is now getting huge and blocks out the view. I haven't approached them about it, but I get the impression they quite like it so I don't think we'll be able to do much more than trim back the bits that overhang - or hope it starts causing damage to the shared wall which will force them to do something about it!

What Dangermouseisace said. Their hedge is way higher than legally allowed and therefore they should pay to reduce it, and maintain it at a reasonable level. No way should it be higher than your roof!

As another PP suggested, get them to come around to your garden to see the impact that it has, and show them a print out of the government guidance. Hopefully you can then both agree an acceptable height for the hedge.

If that fails, just contact your local council tree officer and let him deal with it. Sadly, some neighbours take advantage of others attempts to keep things neighbourly, as we have found out. You obviously don't have to be unpleasant, but stand your ground. Good luck!!

There is no law that says hedges have to be kept at 2 metres, that is what the council will use if you involve them, but your neighbour has don't broken any laws by having a high hedge. I doubt the tree officer will deal with it when the councils have a procedure set up for dealing with complaints under the High Hedge Act, which includes paying a fee to the council. The tree officer is not going to sort it out for free, it needs to go through the proper channels.

19July.... totally wrong according to the local government and government websites. You don't have to enjoy 20 years of uninterrupted daylight, just have your light blocked. It's not criminal law but the council can use antisocial legislation to persuade the owner to cut the hedge (2 or more evergreen or semi evergreen trees/bushes). If the owner refuses there is a £1000 fine so I think that is deterrent enough.

Obviously only the OP knows all the distances and light issues involved and I suggest she looks at my link as it shows clearly how to calculate all the relevant measurements. She certain,y doesn't have to pay for the work to be done but does have a £400 (ish) bill to pay to involve the council who will then take over in most cases if the hedge owner refuses to cooperate.

Personally I would pay the £400 and get the council involved as they can also stipulate the hedge stays at the proscribed level whereas if she pays for the work to be done 2 years later it ps over 2 m again and there's nothing you can do.

..we need a diagram..

Olympiathequeen - quite agree about the principle of hedge height, but in practice I would say it is a grey area when it comes to deciding whether a row of trees constitutes a hedge or not. From memory I think the definition of a hedge is a row of shrubby plants and trees - I don't think anyone would consider conifers or yew trees to be shrubby, so if I was A I would be arguing that it is a row of trees, not a hedge, and therefore I would have no responsibility to keep them under 2m.

Also, B has said that the conifers have been shaped but the yews are a bit unruly - it doesn't sound like the trees are completely out of control and that A is completely neglecting any responsibility for keeping them tidy.

Perhaps other councils are more pro-active than the one where I live and therefore I am reluctant to bother involving them. I know from a personal experience over noise coming from a neighbors property they were about as helpful as a chocolate teapot. There are lots of grey areas when it comes down to who is in the right and who is in the wrong, I just can't see most councils investing the time and effort to fight someone else's battles.

My 85 year old mum on a pension is A. Last quote to just trim her 3m boundary hedges was almost £2,000.
She has three B's
B number one sent her threatening letters- (knowing full well she has dementia grrrr!) the hedge is maintained as it is.
B number two offers to pay towards it and also cleared up all the clippings massively reducing the quote. Hedge is at a height to suit him.
B number three hasn't been in touch yet but I expect it is a matter of time. Sigh.

Without commenting on whose responsibility it is, £750 is absolutely ridiculous amount (complete rip off) for that job!! Get some quotes of your own before deciding on any action.

Sorry for the delay! Have been without service on my phone so couldn't get online!

Will read properly aunt later but so that you know, DH has measured and done a spreadsheet to calculate the allowable height based on council guidelines and due to the height of the hedge, angle of the Sun and angle of the slope it works out that the whole thing should be the minimum height of 2m - we think! I would really rather not go down the council route though as I can't stand the thought of all the angst! I hate confrontation so tend to just say yes but DH is the other way! He won't have the difficult conversations though!!

I've had a quote back from a second tree surgeon now and that's coming in at £320. WIBU to just pay for the sodding thing even if it isn't as drastic as I would like? DH thinks they should at least contribute. It I can't face having that conversation with them!

19july... ... the Gov website says 2 or more evergreen or semievergreen shrubs. There was some recent ish legislation specifically for leylandii which cause so much aggravation, so conifers are well up there as pesky trees. Yes, not always cut and dried but conifers (like the op's neighbour) are more likely to be taken on by the council. The Gov website doesn't say anything about being unkempt just height being the factor that councils can get involved with. It looks like all the stuff I've read says they have a legal duty to get involved, so your area need a bit of a shakeup.

OP. I'm with your DH on this. Let the council sort it out. If the conifers are leylandii they grow massively fast and you will soon face another bill. The council will issue them with an order to keep the hedge trimmed back. You could do the initial cutting down if you wish, but you need to go through a very rigorous process of discussing and writing to the neighbour before the council get involved. Check the Gov websites about 'hedge action'. It tells you what to do. If you pay for the work, ensure it's all in writing and ask the neighbours to keep the hedge in check. Then if they don't the council will be more willing to enforce it for you when they see you've done all you can.

The council will issue them with an order to keep the hedge trimmed back.

I am sorry but it is not so cut and dried as that. The council have a duty to get involved if the OP asks them but it is not automatic that they will rule in her favour. The neigbours will have the right to put their case, the council will have to listen to both sides as they are neutral, not acting purely for the OP.

The fact that the neighbours have agreed to allow the trees to be cut will go in their favour, they will be seen as trying to sort the problem. Our neighbour went through this process with a tree at the bottom of our garden (very long garden though, no light issues) We put our point across, we had agreed to reduce the height but neighbour really wanted it gone altogether. The council found in our favour, we did reduce the height of the tree but there was no obligation to maintain it as the council thought we were reasonable. So be warned, the council may not find in your favour.

Thank you! (And sorry for the delay). I know that the council might not find in our favour (but I would be really surprised if they didn't ask them to cut it and keep it cut). I really don't want I go down that route though.

We spoke to the neighbours agajn last week and they were a little bit awkward and basically reiterated that they don't believe we have any right to light but do acknowledge that the hedge has been allowed to get out of control.

I have been getting really slightly ridiculously stressed about this. For whatever reason I find this kind of conflict triggering and get mega obsessed anxious. But DH is dragging his feet. I am at the point where I just want it sorted even if we just trim a small amount and pay for the whole lot but DH I think wants to demand more cut off. We need to write an email to them now and I have drafted it several times but we keep going round in circles on whether we should ask them to cut the leilandii more than a few inches. They block a LOT of the light but when you cut leilandii they are brown and ugly and the neighbours have clearly stated that they do not want this to happen under any circumstances. Half of the hedge is yew and they are OK with us cutting that a bit more (although I'm not sure how much) but again I don't want to piss them off by asking them to take it right down - like DH does.

I know it sounds completely ridiculous but this is really affecting me. I can't stop thinking about it and just want it all sorted but for DH it isn't a priority and so it's just dragging on...

I'm also still concerned that they believe the yew is so slow growing that they don't need to cut it - ever. Ugh. I really really hate that bloody hedge now!!!

Also, to belatedly answer a few questions... it's definitely a hedge made up of several evergreen trees / shrubs. There is no gap between them so i couldn't even tell you exactly how many there are.

The hedge is 3 times the height of my garden shed at one point. And the slope is not huge at that point! Just a really really massive hedge that hasn't been. Cut for some years.

There is a difference between a general right to light and the high hedges (ASBO) legislation.

OP doesn't have a RTL.

Possibly there may be merit in pursuing a HH complaint to the LA, but it is very technical and easy to get calculations wrong. It aka depends on the area of your garden and the position of windows.

All the posters saying hedges have to be no more than 2m high are wrong. There is no height limit in planning law. Under the high hedges ASBO rules the absolute limit they can get a hedge down to is 2m, but that is exceedingly rare.

aka = all

Thanks collaborate - you sound like you know what you're talking about! Do you have experience in that?

Send them the email saying that the hedge problem needs to be resolved. Set out exactly what you want and explain why. Ask them for £x as contribution. Say that if a compromise has not been agreed to in 4 weeks time you feel you'll have no choice but to ask the council to decide.

This is an awkward situation so just manage it with no emotion, acknowledge it's awkward but it needs to be resolved. Personally I'd have asked the council to rule on it ages ago, it sounds like you have a strong case.

but when you cut leilandii they are brown and ugly Is this always the case? I only ask because my mother got a tree surgeon into deal with her front hedge, and instead of just lopping it off at the required height he did some strange hollowing out thing of the middle at the top so its much shorter but still looks green all over

I'm a solicitor, and though I don't practice in this area I do have an interest in and some knowledge of it.

Take a look at this: www.gov.uk/government/collections/high-hedges
and in particular this www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/9408/hedgeheight.pdf and this www.gov.uk/government/publications/hedge-height-and-light-loss (click on the spreadsheet) - though you may have come across this already if you've calculated the loss of light.

Thanks all!

I will look into the hollowing out thing! Interestingly neighbours said that when they moved in it was all about double the height it is now which is INSANE! So thy must have cut it and it survived / didn't go brown!

collaborate thanks for this! DH has been through and done measurements and drawn up a spreadsheet with active heights on it and then transposed these on to a picture of the garden for neighbours to look at. I think it's interesting what you said about council hardly ever rule to have it taken down to minimum height anyway! Makes me happier to compromise IYSWIM!

I think what they do is reduce it to the highest permissible height without breaching the rules.